Is there a shiny-peaked female version of the WRAF-pattern peaked cap available as a dress option for female WOs? Clearly not just for CFAV AWOs, I mean for any variety of air force female WO.
I was asked this question recently by a potential AWO who was a WRAC in a previous existence, and I had to admit I just didn’t know.
So: to prevent me from trawling through 1358, does anyone have a definitive answer?
wilf_san
No such hat listed in AP1358
Negative wilf_san no such hat for females regardless of rank has a “shiny” peak
Picture below of all hats worn by females in the RAF
If this has helped hit the ‘THANK YOU’ button 
thanks Merlin, females can also wear the forage cap.
Cheers
DJ
Yeah! Forgot to mention that… But who would want to 
[quote=“merlin456” post=2243]Negative wilf_san no such hat for females regardless of rank has a “shiny” peak
[/quote]
Hmm, this is getting to be a bit mysterious.
Right…so according to that list, female WOs are given the option to wear standard ‘full cloth’ female Officers peak caps. But not with shiny peaks…??
But…surely female Officers that are in the rank of Gp Capt and above will wear peak caps with shiny ‘patent-leather peaks and gold passing-braid’, as per their male counterparts? Or do they (ie female Gp Capt-Air Cdre and upwards to MRAF) all just wear standard cloth-peaked caps?
I thought that female Gp Capts/Air Cdres did wear shiny-peaked caps…in fact I was sure they did? But AP1358 seems to imply that they don’t. So do they not get to wear any ‘scrambled egg’ on the peak at all??
And if AP1358 happens to be wrong on this (which is a possibility…), then it could also be wrong about female WOs wearing cloth-covered peaked caps. Couldn’t it?
wilf_san
[quote=“wilf_san” post=2257][quote=“merlin456” post=2243]Negative wilf_san no such hat for females regardless of rank has a “shiny” peak
[/quote]
Hmm, this is getting to be a bit mysterious.
Right…so according to that list, female WOs are given the option to wear standard ‘full cloth’ female Officers peak caps. But not with shiny peaks…??
But…surely female Officers that are in the rank of Gp Capt and above will wear peak caps with shiny ‘patent-leather peaks and gold passing-braid’, as per their male counterparts? Or do they (ie female Gp Capt-Air Cdre and upwards to MRAF) all just wear standard cloth-peaked caps?
I thought that female Gp Capts/Air Cdres did wear shiny-peaked caps…in fact I was sure they did? But AP1358 seems to imply that they don’t. So do they not get to wear any ‘scrambled egg’ on the peak at all??
And if AP1358 happens to be wrong on this (which is a possibility…), then it could also be wrong about female WOs wearing cloth-covered peaked caps. Couldn’t it?
wilf_san[/quote]
Correct Grp Cpt and Air ranks would wear the female Officers hat but with a shiny peak and appropriate cap badge and “egg yoke” Please refer to AP1358, Chapter 7.
Picture attached is of our AC, however, please note she is wearing the incorrect cap badge for an AC (Perhaps she has not had her scaling of uniform yet)
If you found this helpful please hit the ‘THANK YOU’ button <<<<<<
I won’t upload the Chapter, it’s too big 
AP1358c is in the library,
I’ll try and find the latest AP1358 and put it in there too.
[quote=“merlin456” post=2259]
Correct Grp Cpt and Air ranks would wear the female Officers hat but with a shiny peak and appropriate cap badge and “egg yoke” Please refer to AP1358, Chapter 7.[/quote]
Aha, so does that mean that the female hats illustrations summary is incomplete?
Hence why you (and I, and incubus) all thought, in error:
[quote=“merlin456”]Negative wilf_san no such hat for females regardless of rank has a “shiny” peak[/quote]…which is now proven not to be the case from the text of the reg, and also by known custom/practice.
So that still brings me back to the OP. Why on earth would female WOs wear Officers’ style cloth-covered peak-caps, and not shiny patent-leather peaks, in the pattern worn by male WOs?? Is AP1358 actually wrong on this point? That female WOs, when/if wearing peaks, should actually be wearing a black-peaked Groupie-and-upwards-type hat, but obviously without gold egg??
This is a genuine rank-recognition/logic puzzler.
And another ‘hat fact’ has suddenly occurred to me, which also maybe shows an error in AP1358 (or at least perhaps an omission from that illustrations summary). It says that female WOs may wear the Airwoman-pattern ‘folded bowler’, obviously with the WO badge. But it then neglects to say that female Officers can also have that same option, obviously with the commissioned officer cap-badge. I am 100% certain that I have seen female RAF and RAuxAF Officers wearing the Airwomens’ hat, albeit in No2 dress, and as recently as (??) 2005. Has that dress option been formally withdrawn for female Officers??
Ah, but here’s the thing. Irrespective of any errors on the part of a military tailor’s shop, as a VRR FTRS Officer, she may not have been entitled to any scaling for new uniform at all. Perhaps in the same way that FTRS appointees are not meant to receive any OJT, it is entirely possible that they don’t get any uniform issue unless they’re DEs (and that breed is of course as rare as anything you can think of)
wilf_san
Yes, it seems that AP1358 is incomplete.
It is possible that the shiny-peaked variant doesn’t exist in any form other than Gp Capt and Air Ranks (both pre-egged) and rather than having another pattern for the relatively few female WOs in the RAF they decided to stick with the cloth-peaked version.
None of this changes the base answer to your original question, which is “No”
Agree with you both…
I guess the cost of producing a female WO’s hat outweighs the amount of female WO’s around?
But, just to prove that the RAF female Officer’s hat is worn by RAF Female WO’s (With WO Hat Badge) I have attached another image from the most recent RAF Halton Pass out parade.
Hit the THANKS button!
[quote=“incubus” post=2268]
None of this changes the base answer to your original question, which is “No” :)[/quote]
Well, it still helps a lot, in the sense that initially when I was asking the question, I was really asking whether or not female WOs were able to wear peaked caps at all. My assumption (not unreasonably) was that if female WOs could wear peak caps, then surely it would be WO-style ones they’d wear.
I do take the point, and I now raise my stakes on the table…I’m betting that there are more female CFAV WOs(ATC) than any other variety of female WO in the air forces of the Crown (a fairly-safe bet). And I’m also betting that AP1358 is wrong about the type of peaked hat to be worn by female WOs.
Now, here’s a speculation from me, based upon my (still fairly-limited) experience in the ACO.
I have never seen an ex-regular or ex-active reserves female WO that is serving as a CFAV WO(ATC) (ie an AWO), wearing the full Royal Arms. Surely someone here on this forum has spotted such a creature? Or perhaps there has never, ever been such a person. There’s a point behind this question…
Also (and I don’t have access to any version of 1358 from this unsmart phone), does the old ACAI and current AP1358C version of the dress regulation specifically permit the wearing of peak caps by female CFAV WOs? Has anyone spotted female AWOs wearing peak caps ever, in the history of the Corps? There’s also another point behind this question…
I still have a strong impression (for good reasons) that I’ve seen female RAF and RAuxAF WOs, in the past, wearing patent-peaked caps…but that’s maybe another story.
wilf_san
[edit]Let’s see if anyone can work-out what my theory now is…the clue is at [quote]I’m betting that there are more female CFAV WOs(ATC) than any other variety of female WO in the air forces of the Crown[/quote][/edit]
wilf_san wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I’m sure the male WO’s hat is just an airman’s SD hat with WO badge?
wilf_san wrote:
Again, I don’t recall ever seeing a female WO wearing an officer’s style hat, not saying its not an option, but I’ve certainly never seen it. And visa versa, never seen a female officer wearing an airwoman’s style hat. On the stations I’ve visited/been stationed at, the majority of airmen/women and NCOs seem to stick to wearing berets, aircrew (and the occasional guin SNCO) to their daft forage caps and officers to their SD hats in blue working dress, berets in DPM/PCS. And of corse scuffers have their lovely white SD hats that let you know they’re coming and its time to run away! :evil:
Fellow rockape3: Please see my image attached above of a female WO wearing an “Officers” hat.
I’d like to point out to all of you that WO’s also wear Officer No1’s.
Also, rockape3: A WO hat is slightly different to the Airman’s SD hat, but you would get away with putting a WO badge in Airman’s SD hat. WO’s hat’s are made by the same tailors and Officers hats and are slightly more rigid and upright.
I have seen many female officers wearing the folded bowler type hat. This is fine to wear.
[quote=“rockape3” post=2272]Correct me if I’m wrong here, but I’m sure the male WO’s hat is just an airman’s SD hat with WO badge? [/quote]Yes and no.
In the RAF, the WO No1SD Hat is similar to but a different design from the OR No1SD Cap.
Within the ACO it was previously an apparent requirement for ATC WOs to wear an ORs cap with a WO badge which is tricky to do with the modern ORs hats. It did however “match up” with the ORs No1SD they could wear. Current wording issues notwithstanding, I think this may still be the intention for vanilla ATC WOs but RWO/WWO get WO-pattern No1SD and a WO pattern 1SD cap and may wear that.
Very well, I stand corrected. Must admit my encounters with female WOs and officers are few and far between having never served outside the confines of a field sqn.
[quote=“merlin456” post=2269]Agree with you both…
I guess the cost of producing a female WO’s hat outweighs the amount of female WO’s around?
But, just to prove that the RAF female Officer’s hat is worn by RAF Female WO’s (With WO Hat Badge) I have attached another image from the most recent RAF Halton Pass out parade.
Hit the THANKS button![/quote]
Where is the female in that picture? :unsure: :lol:
[quote=“sirvicalsmeer” post=2279][quote=“merlin456” post=2269]Agree with you both…
I guess the cost of producing a female WO’s hat outweighs the amount of female WO’s around?
But, just to prove that the RAF female Officer’s hat is worn by RAF Female WO’s (With WO Hat Badge) I have attached another image from the most recent RAF Halton Pass out parade.
Hit the THANKS button![/quote]
Where is the female in that picture? :unsure: :lol:[/quote]
I attach again
See picture below.
Straight over your head son…