I have been reading through a few bits and trying to find the IBN from a little while ago. ACTO 10 or doesn’t allude to it however my question is. Do we need a signed paper copy of the F3822A/3822A or can it be sent to the parent by e-mail/get them to download from the Bader landling site fill out and return with electronic signature for me to then create the record in SMS?
A digitally filled in 3822A (and H) sent from parents email address is sufficient.
IBN 013 - 2021
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FTFW 
My understanding from the IBN was to try and remove the paper process entirely if possible!
Mad that this is still just IBN policy rather than in an actual policy. There is an ACP (I forget the number) specifically about Sqn admin processes and it still talks about getting the paper copy and keeping it locked away etc.
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There is also the question of where to store electronic copies. We no longer have a OneDrive connected to generic accounts and SharePoint is rather fiddly to use (for me anyway)
Upload it to the cadet’s bader record then delete from the local storage.
This is how it should have been from the start AFAIK?
Although you are quite right, there is nothing in ACP 20 about what needs to be done for a cadet to join the org, with mention to 3822A/H’s and emailing them.
I am trying to streamline our recruitment process as we operate off intakes, I started by created a MS form and anyone that comes through the official or unofficial channels, I have an e-mail I can ping out with the URL, just a short statement, collecting the e-mail address and name and a statement around data collection, handy too for gala’s etc as can turn it into a QR code for visitors to our stall. Then when I have a intake evening. I will use the e-mails off the spreadsheet to BCC an invite, I have just designed a uniform size guide which can be fired out alongside our bank details after we get back the 3822A’s now. What I am hoping for is Day 1 intake, the parent understands the organisation has a link to the 3822a, they submit that back, which I will trigger the next email to get sizes for uniform, we will “translate these to NATO” and put the order in asap, the idea is within 2 parade nights, I want the uniform order off to our parent stores.
Just as another idea that I’ve found works well. Create some QR codes that link to the 3822A / H and a uniform size sheet. The create a little A5 printout with the QR codes and relevant email addresses. Easy to hand out on open evenings. Saves inputting email addresses manually. Well, at least until you need to add the 3822 details into SMS!
Hopefully well have a proper cadet Join process soon. Albeit it’s been ‘soon’ for quite some time.
I find the current system works quite well, I think if you try to automate you just make it more complicated & harder for units to do at the ground level.
Suppose you have all completed in an ms ford that then mail merges a 3822 but at the end of the day people are complicated.
The current system means that a parent has to input data onto a form that then has to be manually input into SMS by a volunteer. A much better system will be for the parent to just fill out the 3822 online which auto populates into SMS. It will reduce admin burden and reduce mistakes!
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A better system for us but not necessarily for the cadet or those we are trying to recruit. Tech knowledge & IT signal isn’t great & can add a barrier.
Otherwise you end up introducing an unconscious filter that prevents people from joining.
Definitely - however, an email / paper copy allows sqn staff to quickly notice any irregularities / mistakes before they get hidden within SMS. If this was a once a week process for 20 new cadets, I think everyone would be screaming for an automated process. As it is, only a couple of times per year, it’s not too unwieldy - & copy / past from e-forms is often possible.
Finding awfully often that parents struggle to fill out a form completely. Had a couple respond to requests for further information that can paraphrased as ‘ I just thought you needed my signature at the bottom so I’d didn’t really read it’
Nah, I disagree 99.9% of people can go to a website and fill in their name, address, DoB etc. That’s all we’d be asking parents to do. And of course, for the 0.1% there would be the paper backup.
Certainly a valid point. Although a well written input form should allow the detection of most mistakes. like not accepting 35/14/02 as a DoB. Also, I’ve found cadets to be very quick to spot any input mistakes once they get onto cadet portal!
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I suppose Bader workflows could be employed to mitigate some of this risk. Ie. when the digital form is filled out by guardian, its contents appears as a workflow for OC/Adj to approve at which point the record is actually created on SMS, giving the option to correct any errors prior to creation.
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This would create a lot more work as it bottle necks it. Currently any staff member can add cadets to sms with the right permissions.
Using workflow just forces more admin onto the OC & adj.
The system does work quite well as it is.
It’s not about if the can do its the getting them to do so & the psychology factor.
We ask for forms to be returned to us electronically but in practice the majority still do it paper wise.
One big thing is the parental signature on the 3822a as it can then be used to cross reference for integrity checks on consent forms - otherwise how do you know you actually have a legitimate signature.
What would be a better solution would be where you upload a spreadsheet with the data added into columns and it bulk creates the bader dms records from that.
The system could be setup so whoever has the permission from the OC can review and accept the Workflow, it’s only as much of a bottle neck as the current system whereby anyone that has permission to add cadets to SMS can take a 3822A and translate it to Bader.
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I would be genuinely interested to see how many TGs are cross reference signature wise from the F3822A when on core level camps such as RIAT support pillar etc or some of the larger regional camps. One cross reference could be from the gift aid form if they have supplied it, if not you could have it on SMS easy enough by asking them to sign a TG21 for no apparent reason and uploading it. In an ideal world, the joining form from the RAFAC website should trigger a workflow to the parent, who completes an online 3822A and H if needed (not exactly detailed) verifies via multi factor authentication. Gives the consent to join etc, that comes across to a queue for the OC/Adj to send a joining e-mail. When the cadet opts into a camp/course on SMS the parent/guardian gets an e-mail & SMS asking them to consent, they click the URL and put in the code and jobs done. Wet signatures are a thing of the early 2000s we are 20 years out of date and need to move with the times.
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A microsoft form would of course fix that by having them required questions.
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