Ending of Uniformed Civil Service Posts

Just seen the update in ACP 20. Interestingly the RAFAC has it seems decided that RAFAC rank for permanent CS staff in certain roles IE mainly WEXO’s and such like are now no longer appropriate or beneficial for the organisation. Those already holding it are it seems allowed to retain it while in current position but if they change jobs or retire they will revert to non unformed/commissioned status. Would be really interested to hear peoples views on this the ACF still appoints most of their permanent staff to ACF commission/ranks appropriate to their role and from my experience speaking to various wexos & dealing with various situations over the years the consensus seemed to be it was only beneficial especially when dealing with regulars

Sounds like completely unnecessary civilianisation of the organisation to me. The ACF also commissions its chaplains and only uses its equivalent of CI as a transitional pre-uniform status.


What difference does it make? They are basically office managers, makes perfect sense as it widens the number of civil servants interested in doing the job.


It’s not like regulars wouldn’t be familiar with interacting with civil servants anyway so I’m not sure the rank adds anything.

Our last WExO (position currently vacant), was quite happy to “just” be a civil servant.


As a former regular who would deal with such stuff, anyone from the ACF/ATC/SCC were 'just cadet people ', whether they were CI’s, uniformed, or the weird civ in uniform mash up was irrelevant - they were ‘just cadet people’.

If they were polite, friendly, upfront, and possibly a bit cheeky they would get help - if they they were an entitled ■■■■ who thought I would be awed into submission by some old duffer who was on the retired list at the Battle of Crecy, they’d get FA.

It’s attitude, not (makey-uppy) rank.


It’s a good thing & confirms that the WExO & wing HQ are not part of the volunteer chain but are there to support.

I’ve known of past conflicts between ATC Wg cdrs & WExos because the Wg Cdr have tried to line manage & dictate things to the paid staff.

This also reinforces that the WExO can be contacted by any volunteer not just wing staff.

Also with the change of commission it makes sense to civilianise WExOs for interacting with the wider military. Whenever a person from the cadet forces interacts with the regulars the regular always trying to work out “what type of cadet volunteer is this”

Pure civil service makes it easier for the regs as they know that the person asking them for something is a civil servant & not a volunteer.


Frankly, it’s the difference being Royal Air Force Air Cadets and Civil Air Cadets (which is already covered by the Air Scouts).

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That point may have some weight if the RAF wasn’t riddled with civilians


Without looking into the stats, I’d wager that the RAF has more civilian staff than military personnel these days - especially if we were looking at all support functions (maintenance, housing, catering etc).


Except it isn’t. The RAF and MOD in general are awash with Civil Servants.


Meanwhile the ACF and CCF both manage to maintain their military identities.

Having civil servants sitting in an office in blues moving stacks of paper around has nothing to do with our military identity.


Not really as it’s only the cadet training team that really do the military stuff.

Part of what’s prompted it is the large staff turnover that’s creeping in & the desire not to be shelling out a lot of money for brand new uniforms when there’s hardly any wear. 20years ago they were all ex regulars so had the kit but that generations been gone for a good while now.

I think the Volunteer Cadet Corps have some uniformed/ranked paid staff but then they don’t have as many units as the rest of us :slightly_smiling_face:

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People have continued to leave the regular service for the last 20 years, so why would that recruitment pool have gone? Or is it simply that that the positions have been downgraded to such low (to mid) grade CS jobs that they are no longer attractive to the ex-regular cohort (who are still finding jobs in the ACF and CCF).


I suspect that those who have left have many operational tours behind them, and considering the UK has been in serious conflict since 1991 and it continues to this day. There has been only 1 year since 1945 that UK forces have not been in a conflict that being 1966.

A)Have had enough of military life, have had their ‘war’ and it’s time to move on. Add in a level of post service PTSD whether known about or those suffering in silence or physical injury. Then there is their families and children who have suffered enough already and work to consider

B) Wouldn’t want the pettifogging b/s that the cadet forces seem to indulge in so well.

C) Have to deal with uniformed CFAV who have never served a day in either the regular or reserve forces, who think, and I have met far too many of them, who think they are in the regular/reserve armed forces instead of a cadet organisation.

D) The armed forces are far smaller today than 30 tears ago, so the recruitment pool is far smaller.

Much smaller regular forces = less people to recruit from in the first place, smaller pool means less people who aren’t able to transition from the military into the job market who would want such a role.

We don’t expect the E1 doing the photocopying to be in uniform so why do we expect the WExO to be?

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The number of ex-regulars in the ranks of the volunteer reserves, CFAVs, ‘civilian’ committees and equivalent, service charities, veterans’ breakfast clubs, etc, etc, suggests otherwise.

Up to around the turn of the millenium many posts were reserved for Retired Officers and regulars transferred from the regulares to the reserves. When the RO posts became main stream CS an undettakung was given that nothing wpuld change for pists that would benefot from previous RAF knowledge. This chsnged around 2008 when the CS decided (with no consultation) that commussuoned service was not compatable with CS T&Cs. The decisuon was made thst those who wished could be granted a VR(T) commission. This change would just seem the next step.

Apologies for the spelling. Fat fingers on my mobile

Thank you for your comments Officer Crabtree, gudnate