I was asked by my OC last night for a copy of my driving license and insurance certificate. She stated that she needed a copy of these to prove I was a trustworthy driver. I was asked this last year and ignored her request as I do not believe she needs a copy of this.
Can anyone confirm or refute my understanding that I do not have to give her a copy of this for her records. NB I don’t drive the SOV due to medical grounds
Ta
My understanding is that there is no requirement for taking copies of driving licence and insureance documents on a sqn. However I can understand wanting to check that a private vehicle is insured if it is regularly used to transport cadets, but see no need to keep copies.
That reminds me, I must drop into my station MTO for annual re-signing of orders!
[quote=“special_k” post=11518]I was asked by my OC last night for a copy of my driving license and insurance certificate. She stated that she needed a copy of these to prove I was a trustworthy driver. I was asked this last year and ignored her request as I do not believe she needs a copy of this.
Can anyone confirm or refute my understanding that I do not have to give her a copy of this for her records. NB I don’t drive the SOV due to medical grounds
Ta[/quote]
Biggest load of rubbish I have ever heard you dont need to give anyone a copy of anything if she dosent trust you with this then why trust you around kids?? The only time she could ask to see you License was if you are driving a Sqn mini bus or something
Its almost impossibe to drive tese days without insurance or a License without being stopped
Hoop, up and poke spring to mind.
However, the Mr Picky in me is suggesting that we use the British spelling of the word’ licence’ as opposed to the American version ‘license’.
Hi
I am new to this and hope I can be of help.
Reading the subject and question, I agree that I am not aware if any requirements for OCs to see your driving and insurance documents.
However, from my own questions to my insurance company I have to have Business Use on my insurance to be insured whilst transporting cadets in my private car. (This is my insurer, others may be different). This for me would be just as important as having a valid Permit 19 for driving the SOV.
Working in this industry I of course have an understanding of how things can happen. I believe that your insurance company could class using your private car to transport cadets in a staff role could be business use (lack of understanding probably as we are voluntary. But for me, I am uniformed, so sometimes would be paid, which is why it would/could be business use). So, not having this on your insurance could leave you uninsured if you had an accident whilst transporting cadets. Definitely worth checking if you haven’t already had this conversation with your insurance company. (I don’t work in motor insurance, but this could come under what you need to disclose as necessary information or Material Facts as we call it)
It could be that your OC is simply checking under a duty of care that you have this, as if the worst was to happen, it would be horrific to find yourself uninsured and I am sure she would end up in a meeting with some tough questions if you know what I mean, in addition to what ever trouble you could find yourself in.
Also, as you have said you cannot drive the SOV, I am sorry to say, but this maybe the reason why she is asking to see your documents for driving your own car (if you use this to drive cadets of course). Which on the face of it (admit with little information), I can see this as a prudent step by your OC. Under these circumstances, you shouldn’t take it personally as she is probably just dotting 'I’s and crossing 'T’s. It maybe worth asking the question why if you are still not happy.
hope this helps
Check the conditions on the 1771 and ACP300… you might be surprised.
Hi nimrod
Thanks for the heads up on the forms.
I think it’s clear it is the individuals responsibility to ensure they do not infringe the hire or reward element and at the end of the day it is the drives responsibility to ensure they are permitted to do the driving they do.
Permit 19 covers this for squadron mini buses if you do not have a d1 and the minibus meets the criteria. , But always best to check and confirm with insurers to be sure for you own car. Especially if you say you use the car for social, domestic or pleasure and commuting as driving on aco business (transporting cadets as a member of staff) could fall outside of the SD&P definition depending on the policy an individual has.
Never hurts to be sure as now buying car insurance from the meerkat or similar is quite popular, if you go for a policy on the cost of it, ( i.e cheap) you may not have a policy that is as comprehensive as you think. You never really know until it is time to make a claim.
Kind regards
My bold.
Doesn’t the OPs complaint fall under this?
I’ve been asked to prove (but not leave a copy) in the past.
But then again…
I took out occasional business insurance specifically for use when on ACO duty - it cost me £3 ontop of the SD&P use…
In the past I’ve had to supply WHQ with a copy of insurance certificate before any 1771s were approved but never had to send driving licence.
I’ve heard of an audit on a reserve unit where the lack of proof of having business use insurance cover bit some people’s bottoms, I think to the extent that previous claims had to be repaid. If your OC has a copy of your current insurance cert it may make life easier in the long term, depending on how any audits are carried out. Same could be said for your licence, although if you have a FMT600 then whoever issued you that will keep a record (photocopy) of your licence each year.
Can’t see any harm myself in your OC having a copy of either.
Well, not to be a party-pooper.
In respect to the Road Traffic Act 1988 and alius cause only a warrented Home Office Police Officer or other Police officer within the realms of their duties or an Officer of Her Majesty’s Courts can request the production of a Driver’s Licence and or documents of insurance when in the course of their duties.
Now, what if your OC is also a Police Officer. The plot thickens! Maybe your Wing just has a principle it keeps or something similar.
Let’s face it, if you’ve nothing to hide, does it matter??
Opens up himself for liberal whingers to start.
If we want to use our own cars for work and therefore claim mileage, we have to provide evidence of MOT and insurance with business which is lodged with personnel.
[quote=“zinggy” post=11526][quote=“special_k” post=11518]I was asked by my OC last night for a copy of my driving license and insurance certificate. She stated that she needed a copy of these to prove I was a trustworthy driver. I was asked this last year and ignored her request as I do not believe she needs a copy of this.
Can anyone confirm or refute my understanding that I do not have to give her a copy of this for her records. NB I don’t drive the SOV due to medical grounds
Ta[/quote]
Biggest load of rubbish I have ever heard you dont need to give anyone a copy of anything if she dosent trust you with this then why trust you around kids?? The only time she could ask to see you License was if you are driving a Sqn mini bus or something
Its almost impossible to drive these days without insurance or a License without being stopped[/quote]
What is being asked does not sound unreasonable, just not well explained.
I assume that this CO keeps a file of all her staff’s licence and insurance docs (possibly MOT certs too). This is an evidence trail of her reasonable step to ensure that staff are aware and meet the requirements to drive cadets in their own vehicles.
I would expect a fleet manager to take those details if the company ran greyfleet which is effectively what the ACO is running with staff using their own cars.
I believe the current estimate is that about 3.5% of the vehicles driving on the UK roads are not insured.
That does not include vehicles that are insure incorrectly for the use. Which I would expect is the most likely pit ACO staff could fall into given the requirement for business use in ACP 300.
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=11546]Well, not to be a party-pooper.
In respect to the Road Traffic Act 1988 and alius cause only a warrented Home Office Police Officer or other Police officer within the realms of their duties or an Officer of Her Majesty’s Courts can request the production of a Driver’s Licence and or documents of insurance when in the course of their duties.[/quote]Erm, that just means that they are the only people to whom you legally are required to produce such documents.
Anyone can ask you to produce them on some condition.
Anyone can ask you to produce them on some condition.Anyone can ask you to produce them on some condition.
For example, I could offer to lend you my car on condition that you show me a driving licence - and withhold the car if you don’t produce them.
The ATC/RAF can offer to reimburse you on the basis that you prove that you were properly insured and withhold payment if you don’t.
[quote=“MattB” post=11577][quote=“Racing Stick” post=11546]Well, not to be a party-pooper.
Anyone can ask you to produce them on some condition.
Well, yeah, obviously!!! Try reading the rest of the quote!
[quote=“MattB” post=11577][quote=“Racing Stick” post=11546]Well, not to be a party-pooper.
In respect to the Road Traffic Act 1988 and alius cause only a warrented Home Office Police Officer or other Police officer within the realms of their duties or an Officer of Her Majesty’s Courts can request the production of a Driver’s Licence and or documents of insurance when in the course of their duties.[/quote]Erm, that just means that they are the only people to whom you legally are required to produce such documents.
Anyone can ask you to produce them on some condition.
Anyone can ask you to produce them on some condition.Anyone can ask you to produce them on some condition.
For example, I could offer to lend you my car on condition that you show me a driving licence - and withhold the car if you don’t produce them.
The ATC/RAF can offer to reimburse you on the basis that you prove that you were properly insured and withhold payment if you don’t.[/quote]
Thats a new one on me I was always able to claim any travel done in my own car without the RAF seeing any paperwork before I had a FMT 600 obviously when I did get a 600 they did look at my docs but never took a copy.
If your driving around in your own car and the boss asks to see your license there is something wrong right away with the lack of trust anyone that drives knows that with all the tech in cop car these days you just cant get away with it.