Hi all,
Wondering if y’all had any information?
I was aware the ACO were discussing allowing CWOs and C/FSs direct entry into uniform when becoming staff, rather than fulfilling that awkward drift period of being a CI.
Anyone know if this is actually going ahead?
Ta
It was announced on 15 Jan 15. ACP20 has been amended accordingly so it in force now.
It includes Cadet Sgt.
[quote=“ACP20 Rev 1.21, PI201, para 1c”]Be an ex-cadet who has reached the rank of CWO, FS or Sgt and who has served as a
cadet for a minimum of 4 years and is aged between 20-25[/quote]
CWOs have always been allowed DE to uniformed staff positions, only recently has the bar been lowered to include FS and Sgt cadets. If someone is saying otherwise, it’s one of those fabled “wing rules”.
I was determined to go straight into uniform after ageing out as a CWO, but for a variety of reasons outside my control it wasn’t to be. I’ve spent 3 years in this “awkward drift period” and I’ve been surprised at how useful it has been. I’m now in the process of applying for a commission and I feel like I have much more to offer now.
If you do have to become a CI for a while, embrace it!
4 years? How important are those 4 years, as I joined at 16 and 4 months which means I won’t hit that time period…
Interesting that they’ve lowered it to Sgt though
Take the time to find your way in the adult staff and where this could take you, this is far more important than thinking “I’m not a cadet any more, I must become an officer now”. This will hopefully lower the chance of turning into a ‘know it all’ JO who looks a complete chod by not using their eyes and ears. 
I was determined to go straight into uniform after ageing out as a CWO, but for a variety of reasons outside my control it wasn’t to be. I’ve spent 3 years in this “awkward drift period” and I’ve been surprised at how useful it has been.[/quote]
Similar to me.
I spent just over 5 years as a CI and in that time I saw a number of good mates who went in as Officers direct from CWO give the organisation “the bird” and laughed at me for going down the CI route. I’ve bumped into a few of them over the years and a couple have said they felt the organisation showed them little or no respect and even then in the mid-80s the pressure was there.
I imagine that you are 19. You have potentially almost 50 years as adult staff in front of you and there is only so much you can do. Also over the next few years you will be carving a niche in the big world and potentially settling down to start a family. If you want the pressure applied by the Corps on uniformed staff and having to fit all this around whatever is going on and the pressures and expectations of the world of work in your early adult life, not to mention personal life, then crack on. But my suggestion like others, is take a few years a CI, there is little you cannot do as a CI, to learn fully about the Corps, go on things and then make a considered decision, when you know what you can comfortably commit to as uniformed staff.
I can imagine your CO or WSO has said apply for a Commission, but not told you what can lie ahead. I see more that leave after a few years than stay on. I don’t know what situation is regarding commissioned officers in your Wing, but if numbers aren’t high and there aren’t enough geographically suitable, after a couple of years you could find yourself being asked to take a sqn command and it’s no picnic. Your OC might even be using you as planned escape route in a few years.
I still see it as said “know it all teenagers” who are lauded by Wing and so on, but soon find the pavements are not covered in gold and their real life isn’t particularly conducive to a demanding hobby
I’m 19 in a few months. I’ll be off to uni so I’ve no idea whether I want to stay with the Corps or go into a UAS/URNU and join back the Corps as a CI.
I was actually brought up mostly in the CCF whereby the only staff role was officer, so perhaps I’m hindered by that mindset (I’m not even 2 and a half years into the ATC yet!). But you do present a good argument about pressures. All of you seem quite swayed by the CI route - but what would you say are the advantages of going DE other than remaining in uniform?
You’re right in that my Sqn staff have said that I may do well in an officer role. You are also right in that Wing are lacking staff - my Sqn Adj has barely hit a year and a half in uniform and Wing are already talking about moving him to be OC of another squadron nearby (again, an ex-CWO who spent a year and a bit as a CI, however. Beginning to sense a pattern!).
So I’m guessing its best to gain experience as a CI rather than going DE?
No one can tell you the right answer, that’s down to you.
Being a CI, especially if you’re at uni, would to me be the best option. A lot less pressure on you.
That said if your heart is set on direct entry then go for it.
I went DE from CWO (back in the day!) at age 22, but had the luxury of a well staffed Sqn; meaning that I had a good 8 years development as a Sqn Offr - first as Trg Off then Adj - before being offered command.
The reality is this - if you commission, you should should expect to take command …that could come sooner, or it could come later; depending on your local circumstances at your Sqn, in your Sector, indeed in your Wing.
If you look at ACTO 94, the Jnr Offr Development Programme is designed to take a newly commissioned Offr from “zero to hero” in 2yrs; ie trained as a Sqn Offr, and given experience of Supply, Adj, and Trg Off. Those 2yrs also take you from Plt Off to Fg Off.
The system is designed to prepare you for early responsibility, and - arguably - an Offr should be happy to accept that …that’s why you’ve been commissioned!
So - look at your local circumstances, consider that you could be required to take a command within/after only a couple of years - and make your decision.
As an aside, personally, I’m not in favour of the new rule changes. Whilst they fit in with the new more RAF-like approach to commissioning (ie select on potential, the. Train then) the RAFVR(T) still has no “training rank” akin to (true) Offr Cdts on IOT …we STILL commission people, then train them (with other than 1 week at ATF, little standardisation or minimum standards) …and we wonder why there are variations/problems - in some cases - with the end product.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again …training rank!!
6-12 months - in uniform - as an AC (like an ACF PI), and given SNCO/Offr like responsibilities - as a “test drive” before being streamed SNCO or Offr; with potential Offrs then being made a non-commissioned Offr Cdt until attending/passing OIC. Potential SNCOs would not get stripes until attending/passing SSIC.
It would be a start.
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I went through this a few years ago. Spending time as a CI gives you a bit more flexibility. You’ve got time to do the courses and activities you want, and I feel that there was less pressure on me as a CI than there was on the uniformed staff on the same courses. Had I gained my commission and been offered/pressured into command, it’s likely that I wouldn’t have had the time or energy to commit to some courses (RCO, BEL, etc).
As others have said, it’s for you to decide. Think about where you want to be for the next 5 years, and think about where commissioning would fit best into that process.
Just out of interest, where are you relocating to?
If, as you say, you won’t reach the required 4 years of cadet service by the time you age out then DE isn’t going to be available to you.
Can anyone outline this new policy or a link please?
I am assuming that they will still have to attend OASC and pass etc? If so I see little difference to the current process?
You’ll find it in ACP20, PI201. All it is doing is recognising a wider amount of cadet uniformed service as a suitable preparation for commissioned service.
Just to add another perspective on matters, I’d heavily recommend you look into the UAS/URNU during your time at uni. Granted, you won’t be gaining specific experience in the cadet forces, but you will (in my opinion) have a better insight into life in the wider RAF/RN which could prove very useful when you return to the ATC after uni.
I’m not saying it’s the absolute best thing ever for someone who’s wanting to pursue a life as an ATC staff member and not join the forces full-time, but it will give you transferable knowledge/experience, and indeed another perspective on matters when you return to the ATC.
It’s just something to consider. I’m here to answer any questions should you have them.
Hm, well it more a curiosity thing I guess, seeing as I won’t hit the 4 years. Bummer - it would’ve been nice to have my options open!
Can someone remind me how long the time period for being a CI is before going into uniform, though?
@StandOut my issue with staying with the ATC is that I’d only be able to offer services when I’m home. I’m not intending to stay with the ATC for the rest of my life, as I’m quite keen to go into the RAF or Navy post-degree. Would it be better to go University Units than ATC if that were the case, then?
It depends what you’re looking for. If you’re looking to continue the cadet experience, then a UAS or URNU may be the thing for you. If you’re keen to become an instructor and continue working with young people, then adult staff in the ACO is probably better.
In your case then I would very strongly suggest you go down the UAS/URNU route. Ignoring the URNU (as my experience of them so far has been purely in a social environment :unsure: ), the UAS system has undergone (and still is undergoing) major changes to turn it into a viable vehicle for regular and RAuXAF recruitment. Having been a member of both the ATC and UAS and with respect to the cadet forces, university service units are much better suited to prepare you for OASC/AIB/AOSB and will (I believe) provide you with a better insight into what life is like for full-time personnel. I don’t have numbers to hand, but the number of personnel on IOT for the last financial year who were ex-UAS was significant.
I’d commend you if you wished to continue with the cadet forces and I know some young ATC staff do then go on to full-time careers, however in terms of your personal development in preparation for a career full-time, the training package provided by the UAS is specifically tailored to your needs.
“Continue the cadet experience” is a sentiment that is carried through by some individuals who join the UAS and quite often they’re in for a shock. University service units aren’t a continuation of cadets, although many do naturally progress in that manner (me included). Indeed some skills are transferable, but the two organisations are quite different. Fly the same aircraft though!
A lot of the confusion, ignorance and negativity directed towards the UAS is borne from not actually knowing who we are or what we do, apart from seeing us propping up the Officers’ Mess bar. Which we do do every now and again :silly:
And that’s my recruitment spiel done…