Desg/dtus

Everyone Careers
1

Hello,
Sorry if this is the wrong area, but I am considering joining the Defence Technical Undergraduate Scheme as a Defence Engineering and Science Group student, but while there is plenty of information about DTUS, there is not a lot of information about there about what DESG get up to. I know that they do Procurement etc for the MOD, but detail is hard to come by.
If I get as far as an interview I’m guessing that I will need to know a bit more about the organisation.
Does anyone know where I can get more info?

PS: Just how much are junior civil serpents paid? Everything seems to be done in codes!

2

DESG is much like other similar organisations like DSTL. They support the Forces in various ways. In the case of DESG its mostly on the basis of equipment and technology.

Within the organisation it will be sub-divided into departments in each forces specialisation. You work with the forces, visit, test equipment and develop.

The graduate scheme develops people early on to progress through the organisation. Its also a good starting point to move onto other industry areas beyond the MOD.

I believe the salary sits around £24k possibly a little less from what I have heard. Don’t quote me though.

3

Leave that one with me…I have an ex-Cadet from our squadron that’s headed DESG via current DTUS, I’m sure he’ll be willing to to give you some advice here, he was an ACC member previously.

And we’ve also got a recent squadron graduate who’s now a new DSFC student, planning to become a JENGO following DTUS/RAFC, for contrast.

wilf_san

4

Am I right in saying that DESG is just the graduate program and a label for the future civil servants as they go through DTUS? It looks like everyone in DESG goes on to work for DE&S and DSTL. If I am right, that gives me something to look into (DE&S/DSTL’s website/blog is more helpful).

All the .GOV websites seem to be going through an upheaval at the moment, I’m relying on the internet archive to get a lot of information.

5

Yes, as I understand it, but I’m still trying to get in contact with my DESG ex-Cadet for proper detail

wilf_san

6

Hi Brooker,

wilf_san’s ex cadet here!
I’m currently on the DESG scheme at DTUS having previously gone through Welbeck as an RAF sponsored student.
You’re correct in saying DESG is the ‘label’ for future civil servants through Welbeck and DTUS. The way you’re looking at doing it is uncommon, not many join DESG before university as it’s not well known. If you decided to pursue this route, here’s what you would do:
4 years at one of the DTUS universities (Newcastle/Northumbria/Birmingham/Aston/Southampton/Loughborough) or Oxbridge with permission.
During term time you will be required to join the reserves of either of the three services and complete the DTUS training programme (weekly parade nights, exercises and Adventurous Training) I should mention you get paid for this! (£4000 annual bursary + approx £1500 training pay)
During Summer vacation you will be required to do a 10 week placement within the MOD (also paid approx £3000)
After graduating you will do about two years of longer placements of 3-6 months after which you will regrade (promotion if you will) to a permanent job. At this point the role of DESG is over and your career begins proper.
Most go on to work within DE&S as DESG is run by them. It is rarer that you would work for DSTL but not unheard of.
I’ll PM you my email address if you require any further info.

7

Thanks t_s_b, appreciated.

By coincidence, there was an extended item on Radio4 tonight about DSTL and in-theatre test+evaluation sites out in 'Stan. Very interesting, I didn’t fully appreciate that DESG/DSTL end-up checking systems performance +compatibility actually in the field (sometimes). This was about the effectiveness of remote IED detection in the depths of real-world EM spectrum environments, and also anti-frag silk boxer shorts (seriously). Both sound like excellent ideas, and the ‘boffins in combats’ is a radical diference from backroom.

Will hopefully see you visiting the sqn soon, and maybe you can buy me a sherbert in the mess bar (that’s if I can escape from the day-job for a while).

wilf_san

8

[quote=“the_silver_bird” post=2433]Hi Brooker,

wilf_san’s ex cadet here!
I’m currently on the DESG scheme at DTUS having previously gone through Welbeck as an RAF sponsored student.
You’re correct in saying DESG is the ‘label’ for future civil servants through Welbeck and DTUS. The way you’re looking at doing it is uncommon, not many join DESG before university as it’s not well known. If you decided to pursue this route, here’s what you would do:
4 years at one of the DTUS universities (Newcastle/Northumbria/Birmingham/Aston/Southampton/Loughborough) or Oxbridge with permission.
During term time you will be required to join the reserves of either of the three services and complete the DTUS training programme (weekly parade nights, exercises and Adventurous Training) I should mention you get paid for this! (£4000 annual bursary + approx £1500 training pay)
During Summer vacation you will be required to do a 10 week placement within the MOD (also paid approx £3000)
After graduating you will do about two years of longer placements of 3-6 months after which you will regrade (promotion if you will) to a permanent job. At this point the role of DESG is over and your career begins proper.
Most go on to work within DE&S as DESG is run by them. It is rarer that you would work for DSTL but not unheard of.
I’ll PM you my email address if you require any further info.[/quote]
To expand a little further, DESG is where types of a more engineering bent end up, and DSTL is where those of a more scientific mind end up. Correctly, DESG is not a lable as you put it for future civil servants, and in the usage that you describe is incorrect. It is simply one of the old professional divisions which the likes of DE&S and DSG were brigaded under, although I suppose those that run Welbeckia prefer that to the term civilian! BTW, DESG grew out of the old RAF MUs, ABRO & MoD PE etc.

9

Cheers all for the info, but I have to admit that I am slightly more confused than when I started!

The DESG website explains that “Defence Engineering and Science Group (DESG) is a community of 13,000 professional engineers and scientists working within MOD civil service to equip and support the UK Armed Forces with state-of-the-art technology”, and goes on to say that the “Graduate Scheme recruits on behalf of [DE&S]”. I interpret this to say that the DESG Graduate Scheme produces people for DE&S, but they still retain some sort of DESG membership.

If I am correct, I wonder what makes the DESG civil servants doing various things in DE&S different from those who are not DESG (but presumable doing the same things), in terms of what they do.

What papa november appears to be saying is that there used to be an ‘old’ DESG, who got swallowed up in departmental mergers, but retains some sort of identity today. What is still unclear is how (for those who work at DE&S) DESG is any different from DE&S, in most cases they are used interchangeably.

The reason I want to know is so that at a possible future interview I can show an understanding of what I will be doing post DESG graduate scheme - other than avoiding these ;).

I think I might listen to today’s Material World - thanks wilf_san!

10

Details on how to enter Welbeck, with the follow-on intention of becoming a graduate DESG Civil Servant via DTUS, rather than intending to serving as a regular RN / British Army / RAF Engineering Officer.

Remember that there is nothing to prevent Civil Servants from becoming members of the Active Reserves in tandem with their main job (in fact, it tends to be positively encouraged). Or to become commissioned as Cadet Forces Adult Volunteers.

Welbeck Entry Details 2014

wilf_san