CWO - Keep or Scrap?

Why isn’t there an eye roll reaction on here?

I was very confused reading this first time around :sweat_smile:

Is it not customary for officers do address WOs as Mr/Mrs/etc.. or is that not a RAFAC thing?

Edit to add:

Apparently not

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It is, indeed.

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TLDR;

Chf Techs are on the way out

In trades with Chf Techs, Chief will recieve lateral promotion to FS, FS will recieve Promotion to WO2, no pay changes as FSs in these trades already recieve WO2 equivalent pay

In trades without Chf Tech, no change

Its like the RAF Regt LCpl fiasco, it’s to reduce confusion

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Will WO2 only be open to TG1, 5 and 13 like Chf Tch?

If those are the trades with Sgt → Chf Tech → FS career path then yes

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Which, if I ran any part of RAFAC Uniform policy, I would whip off them in a flash.

As an ex-AEOp, who worked rather hard to gain that qualification, & with it the aircrew status, I see cadets wearing it as a mockery. Yes, they help out at VGS, no, they are NOT aircrew-qualified.

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I think I’m seeing a pattern…

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Actually some of them are, delivering GICs as the aircraft captain

I understand where you’re coming from, but then they don’t do the same training period, but they wear the uniform, sometimes the cap badge, different versions of the crossed rifles from time to time, the still (for now) mostly wear the same rank slides.

The insignia can carry a slightly different meaning while maintaining a link to the parent service.

For transparency, you could certainly make your case to the DPSG and have it considered formally. It’s nothing if not a constructive process to facilitate these sorts of conversations.

…for which they wear the associated badge. It’s still not the same level as RAF aircrew qualification(s) by any means.

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So by definition …you would have all officer rank braid removed because they didn’t go to Cranwell for 12 months?

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The officer braid is after an approved & accredited officer training course at Cranwell.

Do the flight staff cadets undergo similar training?

To me the argument against is costs. The cadets worked most cost effectively when it utilised RAF supplied uniform & equipment. This includes rank slides.

I struggle to understand the cost effectiveness of a bespoke rank slides particularly as the different facing eagles results in increased costs.

Out of curiosity is there a published number of how many flight staff cadets there are?

Nah, you are trying to compare apples with oranges.

This issue of cost keeps being brought up in relation to rank slides: but it must be negligible? School CCFs often have their own bespoke ones and ACF counties with multiple regimental affiliations sometimes have multiple different bespoke slides. Some of the senior officer (or WO1/WO2) ones might even be unique.

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You ever dealt with MOD procurement before? :rofl:

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I’m not sure i am …..

“…for which they wear the associated badge. It’s still not the same level as RAF aircrew qualification(s) by any means.”

You say VGS Staff are not qualified to the same level to wear budgies…..how are you defining level?
but they have all completed an approved flying course to be Staff..
Officers have not completed their training to the same ‘level’ as regulars.

However, I must admit I never saw the need to introduce the golden budgies in the first place!

What’s the cost per cadet/user?

There’s what 15 VGSs. Flt staff cadets per VGS is what five per VGS so 75 nationally.

Assume only cdt SNCO ranks & Using a 80:20 ratio & majority are the higher ranks rather than lower to

4% CDT Sgt - 3 FS

16 % cdt FS - 12 FSC

80% cdt Sgt - 94 FSC

So you have set up costs x4 for 15 cadets nationally

Regardless the order quantities won’t be near any cost effectiveness of the other orgs you’ve suggested.

Officers have gone through an approved course at Cranwell & wore designators either VRT or embroider rank insignia to identify their branch.

The NCO aircrew course is different & VGS staff have not gone through training & selection in the same way -

Their training is purely pilot training which is rank independent.

What would be the business justification in having different rank insignia for VGS than the rest of the organisation ?

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On the most simple terms: pilots are aircrew, therefore SNCO / WO pilots should wear aircrew rank. They’ve passed the same CIC course as RAFAC officers and wear the same identifiers with the rank.

Edit to add: I would apply the same principle to FSCs who are instructor pilots – but not those just helping strap cadets into gliders, etc, as they are the cadet equivalent to squippers and literally groundcrew rather than aircrew.