An FPN isn’t a conviction in the first place, (and paying it isn’t an admission of guilt) it’s a means of dealing with something without going to court. If you disagree with it and feel like you are on the write side of the law you can tick the box on the back and go to Court instead. (But if you lose it’s a Criminal Conviction and almost certainly a higher fine).
When the law is so vaguely written you can’t have a clear black and white line, the attitude test and appropriateness is always going to come into play.
I really don’t see the problem with going out and buying things, just because you want it.
It’s all well and good people trotting out the mantra only essential items (whatever that is defined as), but it maybe essential for people’s broader well-being that they buy fence paint for example, as they will be in the garden doing something to while away the monotonous hour upon hour, that would otherwise be spent doing something less productive. Also buying things that are “non-essential” is a requirement to keep the economy going, because at the moment it is fubar … globally. So if people are going to Tesco to buy paddling pools and meat to burn in the garden and some tinnies to go with it, good on 'em, we need more people like this. If we stop buying “niceties” and coughing up the VAT and duty for the exchequer, the public sector (inc emergency services & NHS) won’t have the money to exist, when this Charlie Foxtrot comes to an end. Look at how much is the govt borrowing to cough up for this currently, just to keep paying employees told they can’t work. It cannot just keeping “borrowing” money, issuing gilts etc etc
The CC of Northamptonshire like a few other senior plod are seeing their chance to get their Warhol by saying things that will get them a mention on the news.
The other thing now is with Sovietesque queuing, especially while it’s sunny, breaks the day up. Our weekly shop normally takes an hour door to door if you bump into someone and have a chat, the last 3 have been between 1½-2½ hrs depending on the way the shops handle the queue.
I have some sympathy for the position the police are put in - an unusual situation, and legislation that is full (necessarily) of ambiguity - their problems however would be massively reduced if they hadn’t employed a good number of complete throbbers…
I want to say that the over exuberance or well intentioned but ill-informed actions of junior officers are inevitable teething problems, but this is three weeks after the legislation came in to effect - and for clarity it’s 3 sides of A4, it’s not war and peace… The idiot from South York’s police who was video’d telling people they couldn’t sit in their own gardens (and who has been slapped down by her own force), what is that deranged half-wit doing in a uniform?
Chief Constables needing to be publicly slapped down by the Home Secretary - who’s a bit of a hang 'em and flog 'em merchant herself - for their wildly outside the law comments and policies? That says that we’ve a real problem the kind of people we recruit to be police officers, and that we then promote.
Some public statements made soon after the adoption of the Regulations suggested that members of the public could only leave their homes if ‘essential’ to do so. However, this is not the test set out in the Regulations and there is no legal basis for a requirement in those terms to be imposed. The applicable threshold is that of ‘reasonable excuse’
Some of the Old Bill need to be reminded that “essential” is not so specified.
EDIT - I do have a little concern about other EMS turning up in force outside a hospital (Thurs, 2000 hrs clapping) to show support for the NHS. Support the NHS = fantastic. However, if there are lots of Police sitting outside a hospital, they aren’t out on the streets watching out for crime / dangerous motorists, etc.
Bit like the Armed Forces during the Cold War trying to bet on when the Ruskies would pull a fast one - everyone was guessing for about 2100 hrs on a Fri evening, after Happy “Hour.”
Essential is the guideline, there is nothing to stop the Police doing the Engage and Encourage bit around the guidelines. As long as the Enforcement step is only done around the legislation.
Therein lies the problem - to quote the Cambs Police example, an “over-exuberant” officer had his / her tea leaves read. Going far outside the guidelines - which I have to say, would probably have developed more with that attitude if they had seen someone walking out of the supermarket with just a paddling pool… Same for the officer in N Yorks - you can’t play in your own front garden!!
Dorset Police have been reported as doing multiple road stops - where does that become outside any NPCC guidance about VCPs?
So, I’m out driving my car, & get stopped by PC Plod. “Is your journey essential & if so, what are you doing?”
“Yes, officer. Byeeeee.”
What offence (if any) has been committed under the relevant legislation?
We had vcp’s two weeks ago - plod were stopping cars, and if people said they had been shopping they inspected the shopping, gave words of advice about what’s essential food/goods, and then checked the receipts to see how long they’d taken to drive from the shop to the point they got stopped. Local headteacher - my wife’s boss - got an earful from some mouthbreather (who wasn’t observing SD) because it had taken her 25 minutes longer than her thought it should.
Said mouthbreather failed to consider how long it took to get from till to car, and then to get out of the car park.
They’ve also closed off some access points for footpaths - so the local parks are rammed. Clever…
Not winning friends or influencing people round here, that I can tell you.
Only a Muppet would ever start a conversation with a closed question like that.
“Excuse me Sir what’s the purpose of your journey today?” would be a far better start.
If you fail to answer then they would have grounds to suspect that you are committing an offence, on the basis that if you had a reasonable excuse you would offer it at this point. (Once they have reason to suspect you of an offence that is quantifiable it’s a very different game as far as powers and procedures are concerned.)
Being evasive or just generally being about the stop is a very quick way to end up with it lasting 20 minutes while everything from Driving Licence, Insurance, MOT and Tyre Depth being throughly examined.
“Have you seen the News recently Sir, I take it your aware that you are only allowed to leave your home if you have a reasonable excuse? What’s yours for being out at the moment? Also since your driving can I please see your driving licence and Insurance Certificate?”
Attitude is everything, on both sides of any interaction, but the moment you start being evasive the more digging is going to be done. (And the longer it’s all going to take)
Is the sort of thing that will edge you towards getting an FPN when simply giving your reason will be more than enough. (Oooop North they are always much quicker to stick people on so I wouldn’t be surprised if they are being more hardcore and Polis Jockland are a law unto themselves).
And yet they seem to have had none of the problems that plod south of the border have had - they’ve even appointed a firm of lawyers to stand over them to ensure that what they do is proportional to the public health legislation they are required to enforce.
I see no Scottish coppers being filmed being unlawful or Scottish Chief Constables being slapped down by their political masters for witless idiocy…
Having worked quite closely with them I’m not shocked by the lack of mobile phone footage, sticking a camera phone on a Scottish Police Officers glacé doesn’t tend to end well for you
I’m genuinely surprised however that they aren’t getting more stick in the press, they seem to have handed out far more fines than any other Force. (In the last week in March they fished out over 140 fines something like 47 of which were in Glasgow. In the same period the Met didn’t issue a single fine in London.)
