GHE2, I’m really beginning to think you have major problems at your wing level. Time and time again you complain of not being informed yet our Region and Wing punted out a background brief message to all. Sorry chap - I’d welcome you to move to this area but your too far damaged now to be rescuable
Comms around the country is about as variable as they get. My wing normally just forward it all on but in the case of the shooting one, seem to have edited it quite severely.
IIRC when the FMS incident happened we were all kept in the dark officially, but the grapevine and jungle drums were doing their bit. Which isn’t the way to do things.
It is surprising that CAC didn’t do it via social media.
I agree with the above.
Not being kept properly informed as to what is going on (e.g. gliding, shooting, fieldcraft happenings ) starts all sorts of rumours and gossip .
If folks were kept properly informed they might actually be able to help the situation due to having relevant knowledge, contacts etc.
HQAC should grab the opportunities and make use of any relevant professional skills and knowledge that CVAF’s have. They shouldn’t look down on them and treat them as naughty school children!!
I also agree with the suggestion that RC positions should be tour dependant. Having fixed term , possibly renewable, contracts does focus peoples minds to produce results and not coast along.
[quote=“angus, post:19, topic:1880, full:true”]i think that her previous career in the RAF has not served her well in understanding the horse-trading, jointery and the power of using your patrons and allies. most importantly i think, its not prepared her for the enormous power of a cross service, high level chat over tea and biccies.
to a large degree, i’m not sure she/her staff really understand that these powers exist, so they don’t try and exercise them. hence putting up a ‘result’ on facebook without realising that either there was a negotiating process before that result came about, or indeed that there’s a mitigating process after that result.
i just think they are ill-equipped to deal with the environment that they’ve been thrust into. … have a impact on their careers.[/quote]
So from you are say, the suggestion is the people we’ve got running the Corps are not experienced / understanding of how the higher echelons operate. If so that is shocking. How many of us have achieved more the informal way over “tea and biccies” at courses/meetings/seminars/conferences or a drink in the bar, than any number of official approaches, in real life and the ATC. This is how the world operates for crying out loud and to not exploit it to its fullest is bad.
TBH, I think that’s a load of tosh. I doubt the boss’s boss would have extended her if she wasn’t producing the goods. Remember, with the various arms of the org (chaplains, committees) and the cadet council it’s hard to pull the wool over AOC 22 groups eyes 
There are two sides to ‘producing the goods’ in the ATC as CAC, one is from the “high level” and the other and far more important is from our side of the fence.
If not putting a hurry up on people to get gliding back as a viable activity, not getting issues around powered flying resolved, the continuing debacle around shooting, not demanding that the in progress projects (camps, parenting etc) are resolved and other things such as the ongoing problems wrt admin and classifications are regarded as producing the goods, then there is a very wide gulf between her boss’ expectation and that of the average CFAV.
These things might not be easy to resolve, but then things never are, may require some ‘outside the box thinking’ and may mean keeping several balls in the air at a time … welcome to the world of the average CFAV. If resolution of these in our favour requires some bold thinking and or action.
I don’t think any of our Cmdts (save Gordon Moulds) have attempted to manage or hold the people with repsonsibility to account, if anyone in the management team from the COS down at HQAC isn’t delivering, let them shuffle off to become trolley collectors, work in B&Q or do whatever they wish with their retirement, but not play at RAF in the ACO and it should be CAC making these calls.
When I compare FTRS payscales and to our Line Manager’s salary, he would be pleased to recieve the bottom end for a Wg Cdr FTRS (home), especially as it seems there is no real need to do anything, except collect a salary. If he and his fellow Line Managers allowed things to slide that affected the day to day operation / delivery of their areas, as our Senior Management in the ACO have (bearing in mind a line manager is middle management) their annual appraisals would not go well which means no bonus or salary increments.
My sincerest hope is that in the next 5 years our Cmdt gets into the people collecting a bloody good salary and makes them earn it.
cannot agree more!
the number of units who are able to get flying in something more interesting than a Grob because they bumped into the right person at an airshow/camp/bar is disproportionate to the “correct” route
if indeed there is a correct/official route for getting 5 cadets on a Merlin, or 25 Cadets on a Voyager??
at our Wing Training (Conference) Day OC 22 Grp was there and the question was posed “how do we get flying opportunities” (all following a Q&A which quickly came round to flying)
his answer?
ring the Ops desk!
it is up to the CFAV to make a phone call and request places…
that requires a rapport to have built up and the flexibility to move Staff and Cadets to the airfield in question at short notice…
And that is the biggest limiting factor.
The good old days of having an operational RAF flying base on your doorstep have long gone. A looming time ago, when I did my basic pilot trg at Church Fenton, in summer holidays, there were always a couple of cadets dropped off in the hope of getting a quick flight in a Jet Provost (staff pilot leading a student formation, etc),; on tankers, quite a few cadets managed flights, but they had to do the escape trainer first - & even then they got booted off sometimes if the tasking changed to aircraft that wanted refuelling had “learners.”
Today, the locations, aircraft types, operational tasks & any associated pax carrying limitations really have reduced “ad hoc” flying to very skimpy levels.
Fast jet = one cadet per million years.
Maritime recce = not in existence.
Electronic recce (Waddington) = very limited
SAR = military options almost down to nil, civil options unknown.
Tanking = Voyager - less said the better for the ACO plan!
Transport = likely to be limited to local sorties only.
Trg = Cranditz - King Airs - some small possibilities.
Heliis = some possibilities.
However, weekend, short notice flying is almost impossible in school term time - availability of cadets, staff & driver(s) - & this excludes “on the day” RAF tasking changes (or technical issues, etc). Weekend flying is very limited generally on the basis of reduced RAF operations.
Happy days - my first cadet camp at St Mawgan with a fantastic flight in a Canberra!
mine was something similar - and because of where i grew up the availability was good - Lyneham, Brize, even down to Chiv, and skiving off school wasn’t a problem 25 years ago…
these things are not the same now, availability is almost non-existant, and even if it were available, School goes mental at the thought of cadet bloggs being away for a day.
so, its simple, if organic flying is off for the forseeable future, and inorganic flying is a non-runner, then we need to find something else to do. how many BEL/WGL/ML’s and minibuses would the Gliding and AEF budget buy in two years?
We need flying or we might as well ditch the blue/grey and all go out and buy woggles and scarves. Doing BEL and all the other things is all well and good, but it ain’t flying. Back in the day I didn’t join the ATC to go camping and so on, I joined for the flying and that as the main motive for joining hasn’t changed if the youngsters I have join are anything to go by. I haven’t had one join who says I really want to do a first aid course or any other of the types of caulk we plug the gaps left to fill the holes left by no flying.
It needs a few more inspired thinkers at Regions and HQAC. Surely we can’t be expected to do our day jobs, have a family life, be ATC staff and do their jobs as well.
what would this mythical source of flying be?
much as i quite enjoy the idea of the regional commandants being tied to a box and then electrocuted to the point where they flap their arms so hard the box takes off, its not really a runner. commercial flying - unless you want subs to be about £50 a week - is out, military or quasi-military flying is out, so where does this flying come from?
one flight a year does not make an activity.
we either do something else, or we do nothing. the number of cadets - and staff - who will leave if we don’t find a source of regular flying is nothing compared to the number of cadets and staff who will leave if we fly once a year and do feck all else.
Once upon we used to get opportunity flights on commercial flights at the weekend. Not very often and they were a pita as last minute replacements couldn’t happen easily, BUT the cadets really enjoyed it. It was in addition to powered flying and gliding … whatever they are.
Without the flying how can we call ourselves Air Cadets or even associate with the RAF?
As for cadets and staff leaving, they are and have been for the last 2-3 years (3000 cadets if what I saw was correct), with just the non-flying activities on offer. We do a camping weekend twice a year on top of DofE expeds, local FMS, go to a local indoor climbing wall, canoeing, archery, numerous other things and shooting if we can get them WHTd and the cadets have still left. On the basis of 3000 every 3 years, even with a percentage joining each year, 10-15 years the ATC potentially becomes non viable for the RAF to fund and RFCA to support. I have cadets who have been in the Corps for 2½ years had one AEF slot (at annual camp) and never been in a glider. For someone who’s been in the Corps as long as I have this is unprecedented and frankly disgusting. I imagine there are cadets who have been in longer and in a similar position.
As MJ intimated buying all new gliders has got to be more cost effective and a damn sight quicker than getting the old ones refurbed, especially if it’s right and there are more problems. Sometimes you have to buy a replacement rather than repair/patch up the old thing. There should be a look into outsourcing AEF to flying schools, unless we get (and being under 5 AEF I’ve lost all patience) a proper committment from the RAF to ensure AEF, if they can’t give that assurance sad to see it go, but we have to sever the link and think about ourselves.
The writing has have to have been on the wall for traditional AEF since the numbers for new RAF pilots were slashed and stations closed, given AEF seems to piggy-back RAF basic flying training and needs an airfield to operate from. Now there are all manner of other off-putting factors for the more senior pilots, who seem to be the backbone of the AEF pilot pool. Could AEF become one of the main flying taskings for the RAF?
We need the CAC to be strong and dynamic, ditching all the vision and mission and social media BS (it’s all flannel) and concentrate all efforts solely on reinstating of our USP to something like it was, over the next 5 years. If by 2020 flying and gliding are not up to a good level and still a postcode lottery, the future won’t be bright or orange.
You lot need to wise up. The capital cost of what you suggest isn’t available and as Cameron and his chums continue to squeeze the budget you’ll be lucks the getting a box of A4 paper to make your own.
If the justification is put across well the capital expenditure can be granted. The problem we have is that the glider fleet refurbishment has been royally mismanaged/mishandled and a lot of money and time has been wasted getting nowhere (probably all regarded as the norm in the MoD/public sector) to make the justification for a fleet of new gliders look good. I imagine there will be knighthoods and promotions soon for not letting project management standards in the MoD slip. Lets face it if we’d had the gliders back in the air in significant numbers by now, it would have sent shudders through the project managers across the MoD in terms of delivery.
Anyway if the govt are as keen as suggested on state school CCF units any RAF ones (as they arise) will want access to flying opportunities. I bet a word of disquiet from across the current traditional CCF old school tie, dodgy handshake network, could ease the wheels.
I do agree that the “ad hoc” flights are simply unicorn droppings common, but even the “cheeky opportunist” creates a frustrating factor for everyone else…(not even a post code lottery but how come they got an opportunity available to us all….)
I know of units who have got flights from Benson and Odiham but aren’t even in South West Region, made the call with the right contact they bumped into on a chance meeting and sorted out a day’s flying.
I also know another unit who recently had a day sortie in Voyager, refuelling Typhoons and Hercules.
I am not saying that the opportunities should only to local units (the Voyager one was a local unit), the spread of RAF Airfields simply wipes this out for some Wings! But if there are units able to get hold of flights and have two hours travelling first the RAF must be making it worth their while. There must be capacity in the RAF schedule for AEF flights for Cadets why not actually schedule them in?
If for instance a target for 1 flight a month/5x seats for the ACO for each (not fast jet) Squadron was set.
The flight wouldn’t need to be Cadet specific, no need to lay on anything special, just passengers (stowaways!) on an “UK operational flight”
Voyager over the North Sea refuelling
Hercules low level flying in Wales/Scotland
Puma/Merlin flight to a Training area
Sit in the back of a Squirrel/Griffin training flight
Tucano flight (ok this would need to be Cadet derived flight plan)
Kingair Navigation flight (as a Cadet I got two hours in a Domine Nav flight a big circle around Wales/England while on camp at Cranwell. There was a spare seat going and must have been every time the aircraft flew)
Sentry flight…doing what they do?
It wouldn’t change the world, and certainly won’t change the face of flying for the ACO, but there is capacity out there. Every so often a posts in the (social) media indicates someone got an opportunity above and beyond Grob flying.
There a box in a F3822 where parents given permission for little Johnny/Jane to go flying in RAF and USAAF aircraft yet how many Cadets on the average Squadron have done anything more than Grobs?
Yes the ACO offers AEF and GIC to our Cadets but is this really any different than a parent paying <£100 privately? The subs on our unit are £96/year so the cost isn’t exactly wallet splitting difference (for what was once a “guaranteed one flight a year)
My point? Little Johnny can go into School on Monday morning and say “I went flying on the weekend” but for a similar cost so can his non-Cadet class mates…
It is only flying that separates us from the ACF and without that it leaves only shooting (as a supported activity at least) which separates us from the Scouts and even some of them do Air Rifle shooting.
But why does it require the volunteer side to either arrange or come up with the ideas?
You’re delusional. No matter how well it’s written, the MOD is not in any financial position to stump that level of £M up.
Been trying to get cadets on one for a while - but with Waddo’s runway closed (8 Sqn bolt-holing at Coningsby), & their operational deployment of aircraft + local flights being used for airborne operator trg = no go for some time… 
There has to be a point where ACO/MOD come to a acceptance/compromise about funding for new equipment - even for shooting, the replacement rifle for the No 8 has hit the buffers, with trials that I don’t think were conclusive - & the proposed £6m budget seems to have been chopped to £1.5m initially.
As I see it, lack of funding, & lack of push from on high, will strangle the ACO…
this (my bold) is what annoys me.
Squadrons have proved it is possible to do, we see Cadets on exciting flights yet each time the volunteer is the one doing all the leg work.
there needs to an ACLO position in the Ops room someone who is looking out for an opportunity for the ACO…
setting a realistic 1flight/5 seats “target” does not seem unreasonable…
look on it with paternalistic bemusement.
the RAF is fighting one war at the same time as moving into two new spheres or air operations - carrier strike and LO - its also (according to pretty much everyone in defence) about to go back into the fixed wing ASW game, at the same time as dealing with a deteriorating security situation on NATO’s eastern, southern and northern borders.
exactly what calibre of people, given the above, do you think that RAF has spare to run a youth club?