Coach travel - Self drive coach?

Because in this organisation having information is key. (i.e the WgExO will find it much harder to fob me off with a ‘no’ if I can say I know of ‘x’ times when ‘y’ was done in other wings.)

Has anyone ever borrowed/hired a full on coach from MT for an expedition and had a fully qualified CFAV drive it themselves? I have a Sgt who is a professional driver, fammed up on everything you can name, he’s also now a manager, so he doesn’t actually drive anymore meaning there won’t be any hours conflicts. I also know that Brize have a few coaches on the lot.

However, this is the ATC, and the concept of borrowing a free coach, and staffing it with a free driver seems so simple as to make it impossible for the two organisations to actually pull off!

So has anyone else done it?

There is a WO and Sqn Ldr in my wing that have a PSV license and have driven on camp before. I dont know the admin side of things but think they skipped wing and spoke direct to MT.

They did get coach added to their FMT600 though.

This was through Brize

1 Like

Skipping wing and speaking direct to MT was definitely on my to do list. I know from past experience that our WgExO lies about what MT will and will not do. He told me that Brize wouldn’t do electronic MT signing, I said we should organise for the wings to get together and ask, I rang another wing only to be told that they already have that very same arrangement with Brize…

Brize are super accommodating. Just ask. On my initial FMT600 issue with 5050 they offered to put my self and colleagues through D1 training and testing, whilst staying in the sergeants mess for a week was informed by the powers that be in the RAFAC that we must attend lecolnfield another several hours north of Brize.

Plus the costs involved and needing extra time off work or using leave when it could be spent with family or just offlaoding and relaxing.

1 Like

There may be issues with weekly rest periods though if he has done a full week at work then goes to camp and drives.

You could technically say he has taken a reduced weekly rest period on the travel day to camp. But from experience it’s exhausting enough travelling that it’s on shaky ground.

it’s something most people don’t think about, but if he heaven forbid crashes and someone is seriously hurt. He will end up loosing his vocational licence and if he as manager is named on an O licence, he could get the company into a spot of bother with the traffic commissioner.

I’ll leave all that to him. He knows far more about it than me, my focus will be on getting him a bus,

ACF here, but yes. We do it for annual camp every year.


With reference to this, out of interest, and considering the definition of an MOD driver is anyone who controls an MOD vehicle, I take it the ATC has to abide by JSP 800, Volume 5, and I think AP3150 for the RAF?

Including MT Standing Orders? Drivers duty hours, and driving hours?
Do you have to fill out the relevant FMT 103, 105, 106 etc etc.

And if anyone who drives for the ATC actually knows, is aware or follows or doesn’t follow any of these?

And if someone holds an FMT 600 from regs/Reserves does this transfer into the ATC if said person is a Service Instructor?

Yes - We also have ACTO150. But a lot of it is directly copied out of the pams.


Some do, some dont. i personally think its down to a lack of understanding from some rather than ignorance as most are not professional drivers.

Yes - FMT600 is valid across the board as its RAF issued rather than issued within the ATC. Ive seen a couple of MT Sections throw a wobbler about them as they only like local FMT600’s, but thats pretty much par for the course with some MT sections.

I went to leconfield for my D1, finished that and went to my MT section who insisted on a fam drive. So that shows how much MT Sections do joined up thinking.

1 Like

i know of two Cat D drivers in the Wing.

One i know has tried to get a self-drive 50 Seater coach and been firmly told no via Pheonix or MT sections.

there is of course the private route, but doubt that would be an option due to the cost of hire of the vehicle (without the driver)

1 Like

FMT is triservice, if someone isn’t RAF but a service instructor through another branch of service is it still Viable?

This is the exact problems we have in the regs/Reserves the HQ don’t push down a lot of understanding with it, and make some ridiculous demands and ideas but at the end of the day it’s your license. I have had many an argument with SNCOs and Officers and refused to do as they asked because it breached JSP800, and if anything happened, it would be me in the dock.

Professional drivers or not, I would encourage everyone to correctly fill out the paperwork. How does it work reference driving hours, do you fill out the hours sheet for the week before commencing ATC Duty as a driver? Are drivers aware of breaks, rests, daily duty and weekly duty allowances? Who signs of authorisation and checks the MT paperwork?

Leconfield was a dive. The only profit was living with a load of Gurkhas that used to cook up some beasting curry’s at the weekend.

Why were they refused? If he’s qualified and has the correct paperwork?

Perhaps it was the intended use? I know there are certain things that they can’t be used for due to what public money can and can’t be spent on. I can’t remember that the restrictions are though.

1 Like

You get given sheets to fill in, but normally not enough to backdate the form. It relies on you being honest with the hours you are doing.

They should be, you read and sign MT orders which has it in as well as ACTO150 which has the same sort of stuff in. Some MT sections do a full day course which covers it, but when i did my initial FMT i was in and out 10 mins later.

Depends, WHQ if you have booked through Phoenix, MT section if you have it off them.

1 Like

basically the WExO said no.
i can understand this however
it is against policy via Phoenix and although FMT600 in place, needs a friendly MT to accept a none MT driver. (how many cases will there be for a none MT regular to use a coach for it to be considered the norm to offer it to the ATC as well?)

1 Like

Surely there should be enough sheets in the drivers/vehicle pack to cover at least a week before starting Duty as a driver?

I can imagine this stuff is more frustrating for you guys, I know the regs can make it work but the reserves have a mega hard time making it work.
I did an MT supervisors course a couple of years ago and it highlighted just how wrong the chain of command has it, and just what lads at the pointy end don’t know and should know.

It’s to the detriment of other people’s safety. Especially with you guys transporting kids. Which would look awful in the news headlines.

Depends on whether the MT section/Wing are feeling rich that day and decide to give you loads of copies. Some if you get it midweek make you fill in the previous days on the form, most from experience dont care. Ive only ever been asked to fill in a week previous (although really it should be much more!) at Fairbourne AT camp.

But to be fair, it really isn’t set up for us. So we have to roll with what we are given.

1 Like