I maybe missing the obvious but where do I find Clay Pigeon as an option on SMS?
Thank you!
In short itās not an option. I would take to the relevant wing staff as to how they would want it putting though. There isnāt a simple clay pigeon or shotgun option. It could be put as shooting and associated skill at arms in a shooting app but equally it is a sport so ā¦
Just take the cadets that you think you can handle a shotgun as they will probably be sensible enough to use them.
Iāve been going clay shooting and some āfree shootingā at a local farm for 18 months or so and have been asked if the cadets want to come. Iāve asked and so far none have come, but if they did, it wouldnāt be a cadet activity in any way shape or form and theyād have to pay for their cartridges.
What happens when one of them shoots themselves or gets an injury and the parent complains? Or sues you? And then finds out you werenāt covered by MOD insurance as youāre on an unapproved activity (and from the sounds of it wouldnāt bother to check the providerās PLI).
Itās really easy to get it as an approved activity we have cadets do it on a regular basis just need to see which functional officer will approve it. Iām sure we use shooting apps and also g as you have somesone with a relivent CPSA qual
It would be made clear to all that it is a private shoot and they are invited guests, like everyone there and if something happened there would be police all over it. Just as cursory thing people are reminded where not to stand and what nor to do and guns are loaded for people a bit windy about thatā¦ I canāt imagine the parents being turned away if they fancied a go. It might be in a field but people arenāt stupid and as yet no one has gone wandering in front of the release point when people are firing. When we weāre waiting people watch and chat.
Iāve done all sorts of shooting over the years (including 2 or 3 hundred 22 ranges) and in that time no one has shot themselves, so why on earth you would think it would happen because itās not been box ticked for the ATC beggars belief.
Why we have to think cadets will do stupid things, is plain stupid in itself. Iāve done more years without H&S scaremongering, than with and as yet Iāve not seen the benefit of the scaremongering, except to make jobs for people.
Iāve never seen an accident so they donāt happen.
Now donāt get me wrong, Iām all for clay pigeon shooting but the ATC has rules in place to minimise accidents. Having a waiver in place that this is not a cadet activity is fine as long as it is sufficient to actually remove liability from what could, at first glance, seem to be one.
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ACTO 48 is your friend and details the RAFAC policy for Clay Shooting
The organising unit would raise either Sport/Shooting SMS Application. If provided by an external provider, I would suggest that the PLI etc. would need to be attachedā¦
as a farmer who sells shooting leases, i can say with my hand on my heart that i wouldnāt consider allowing a group of children to shoot on my land unless it was via a fully professional, commercial company with the qualications and insurances to match.
if i heard the phrase āits not officialā i wouldnāt just run a mile, iād ring the old bill!
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All I have said is the opportunity is there for them and none have taken it yet. The group is quite happy as most have got or had children that they took shooting. One of the blokes brings his son and a mate occasionally who are 14/15 and they donāt sod around. But the cadetsād have to get there and back and itās not an easy place to get to on a Sunday morning or anytime really and pay for their cartridges, which you order in advance. Plus parents would be more than welcome to stay and they would, as the drive there and back would be nonsensical.
One of our committee sells cheap tickets for theme park which they get through the school they work in. The cadets have bought them and gone as mates or with their families. Weāve never and never would run it as a squadron thing, Iāve done the theme park thing with our kids and not planning on taking kids unless itās grandchildren.
Regardless of if the cadets pay for their cartridges as they would with an RAFAC activity as not publicly funded.
The association to RAFAC by offering to your cadets is their and therefore parents will assume itās a RAFAC activity - which it could be.
If they want to shoot clay and your not offering an official activity they have google to find somewhere.
So does this mean I have to remove the leaflets we have for a local activity centre, flying clubs, leisure centre, local museums and a couple of local attractions, and I wonāt mention air shows as well, just in case the cadets say to mum and dad we want to go and said cadet gets hurt and mum and dad being blithering idiots and simpletons think the ATC is to blame.
i argue noā¦because those leaflets and posters for such events are in the public domain.
the offer for Cadets to join a āprivateā shoot makes it more specific to the RAFAC and thus could be seen as a RAFAC activity.
if the invitation was more widespread, in the public domain then i could see more transparency, but if the only way to join in with the activity is to be part of 123 Sqn RAFAC then it is difficult to see how this couldnāt be seen as a āRAFAC eventā, regardless of the intention and any disclaimers signed
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agreed. just saying āits privateā doesnāt make it so when it doesnāt look private.
that old thing where it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck - its a duck? well it applies here.
my old school had some fun along this line - one of the teachers owned an outdoor activity company, and he hired the school grounds during the summer for PGL type weeks. all was great until there was an accident, and the parent sued the school as well as the company, and despite the leaflet (which the school had allowed the teacher to distribute) saying āthis is not a school activity, its provided by X companyā, the judge took the view that the relationship between the school, the teacher, the company and the school grounds was so close that it was unreasonable to believe that a parent would genuinely believe that there was no supervisory relationship between the school and the activity weeks.
my Sqn has a ānot ATC activityā policy - effectively weāll help cadets plan their own outside stuff, which is overwhelmingly hillwalking and backpacking trips, but we as staff canāt go on them or help with logistics, precisely to create a stretch of deep, clear blue water between the Sqn and what they do outside the ATC.
i simply donāt believe that a 15yo cadet would really understand the difference between an official ATC activility organsed with, and carried out with, ATC staff and a private, non-ATC activity organised with, and carried out with ATC staff, and i donāt think their parents would either.
personally, as a parent, if presented with an āits not an ATC activity but Flt Lt bloggs and FS Smith have organised itā, iād assume that either it was idioticly dangerous and thats why Bloggs and Smith were doing it outside the ATC, or that they were nonces.
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