Clay Pigeon Shooting

I maybe missing the obvious but where do I find Clay Pigeon as an option on SMS?

Thank you!

In short it’s not an option. I would take to the relevant wing staff as to how they would want it putting though. There isn’t a simple clay pigeon or shotgun option. It could be put as shooting and associated skill at arms in a shooting app but equally it is a sport so …

Just take the cadets that you think you can handle a shotgun as they will probably be sensible enough to use them.
I’ve been going clay shooting and some ‘free shooting’ at a local farm for 18 months or so and have been asked if the cadets want to come. I’ve asked and so far none have come, but if they did, it wouldn’t be a cadet activity in any way shape or form and they’d have to pay for their cartridges.

What happens when one of them shoots themselves or gets an injury and the parent complains? Or sues you? And then finds out you weren’t covered by MOD insurance as you’re on an unapproved activity (and from the sounds of it wouldn’t bother to check the provider’s PLI).

It’s really easy to get it as an approved activity we have cadets do it on a regular basis just need to see which functional officer will approve it. I’m sure we use shooting apps and also g as you have somesone with a relivent CPSA qual

It would be made clear to all that it is a private shoot and they are invited guests, like everyone there and if something happened there would be police all over it. Just as cursory thing people are reminded where not to stand and what nor to do and guns are loaded for people a bit windy about that… I can’t imagine the parents being turned away if they fancied a go. It might be in a field but people aren’t stupid and as yet no one has gone wandering in front of the release point when people are firing. When we we’re waiting people watch and chat.

I’ve done all sorts of shooting over the years (including 2 or 3 hundred 22 ranges) and in that time no one has shot themselves, so why on earth you would think it would happen because it’s not been box ticked for the ATC beggars belief.

Why we have to think cadets will do stupid things, is plain stupid in itself. I’ve done more years without H&S scaremongering, than with and as yet I’ve not seen the benefit of the scaremongering, except to make jobs for people.

I’ve never seen an accident so they don’t happen.

Now don’t get me wrong, I’m all for clay pigeon shooting but the ATC has rules in place to minimise accidents. Having a waiver in place that this is not a cadet activity is fine as long as it is sufficient to actually remove liability from what could, at first glance, seem to be one.

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ACTO 48 is your friend and details the RAFAC policy for Clay Shooting

The organising unit would raise either Sport/Shooting SMS Application. If provided by an external provider, I would suggest that the PLI etc. would need to be attached…

as a farmer who sells shooting leases, i can say with my hand on my heart that i wouldn’t consider allowing a group of children to shoot on my land unless it was via a fully professional, commercial company with the qualications and insurances to match.

if i heard the phrase ‘its not official’ i wouldn’t just run a mile, i’d ring the old bill!

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All I have said is the opportunity is there for them and none have taken it yet. The group is quite happy as most have got or had children that they took shooting. One of the blokes brings his son and a mate occasionally who are 14/15 and they don’t sod around. But the cadets’d have to get there and back and it’s not an easy place to get to on a Sunday morning or anytime really and pay for their cartridges, which you order in advance. Plus parents would be more than welcome to stay and they would, as the drive there and back would be nonsensical.

One of our committee sells cheap tickets for theme park which they get through the school they work in. The cadets have bought them and gone as mates or with their families. We’ve never and never would run it as a squadron thing, I’ve done the theme park thing with our kids and not planning on taking kids unless it’s grandchildren.

Regardless of if the cadets pay for their cartridges as they would with an RAFAC activity as not publicly funded.

The association to RAFAC by offering to your cadets is their and therefore parents will assume it’s a RAFAC activity - which it could be.

If they want to shoot clay and your not offering an official activity they have google to find somewhere.

So does this mean I have to remove the leaflets we have for a local activity centre, flying clubs, leisure centre, local museums and a couple of local attractions, and I won’t mention air shows as well, just in case the cadets say to mum and dad we want to go and said cadet gets hurt and mum and dad being blithering idiots and simpletons think the ATC is to blame.

i argue no…because those leaflets and posters for such events are in the public domain.

the offer for Cadets to join a “private” shoot makes it more specific to the RAFAC and thus could be seen as a RAFAC activity.

if the invitation was more widespread, in the public domain then i could see more transparency, but if the only way to join in with the activity is to be part of 123 Sqn RAFAC then it is difficult to see how this couldn’t be seen as a “RAFAC event”, regardless of the intention and any disclaimers signed


agreed. just saying ‘its private’ doesn’t make it so when it doesn’t look private.

that old thing where it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck - its a duck? well it applies here.

my old school had some fun along this line - one of the teachers owned an outdoor activity company, and he hired the school grounds during the summer for PGL type weeks. all was great until there was an accident, and the parent sued the school as well as the company, and despite the leaflet (which the school had allowed the teacher to distribute) saying ‘this is not a school activity, its provided by X company’, the judge took the view that the relationship between the school, the teacher, the company and the school grounds was so close that it was unreasonable to believe that a parent would genuinely believe that there was no supervisory relationship between the school and the activity weeks.

my Sqn has a ‘not ATC activity’ policy - effectively we’ll help cadets plan their own outside stuff, which is overwhelmingly hillwalking and backpacking trips, but we as staff can’t go on them or help with logistics, precisely to create a stretch of deep, clear blue water between the Sqn and what they do outside the ATC.

i simply don’t believe that a 15yo cadet would really understand the difference between an official ATC activility organsed with, and carried out with, ATC staff and a private, non-ATC activity organised with, and carried out with ATC staff, and i don’t think their parents would either.

personally, as a parent, if presented with an ‘its not an ATC activity but Flt Lt bloggs and FS Smith have organised it’, i’d assume that either it was idioticly dangerous and thats why Bloggs and Smith were doing it outside the ATC, or that they were nonces.