I think that rule went out when they introduced the cadet forces commission, but I may have imagined it.
If that’s true, there’s even less reason to hesitate before getting into uniform one way or another as you could change your mind later.
Can you please stop saying this to people - I’m finding it a massive headache deprogramming cadets from this group think & the SNCO cult. Why would you want to go back anyway?
Personally I think we should cease appointments of all SNCOs and just have officers & civilian instructors but this is due to massive personal bias due to personal poor experience. I try to minimise it but I do have a tendency to prioritise the opinion & thoughts of CIs over SNCOs.
The ages for volunteers to be most effective is in their first 10 years.
For the organisation to change & develop it needs it most effective volunteers to have the most influence. Officers have more influence than SNCOs so we need the brightest and the best to be commissioned at an early point of their cadet adult volunteering.
Otherwise it’s just going to keep whirling round the lowest common denominator.
@Fubar (sensibly) asked for guidance, they are a CI with 8 months experience wanting to know the pros/cons re options of uniform. From what their CO has said to them it appears their CO is switched on & has experience on guiding the process.
The info provided needs to allow them to make an informed choice & what suits their individual circumstances. SNCO role is not suited for everyone neither is commissioned. There are some excellent officers who were/would make awful NCOs & vice versa.
The important thing is people volunteer in the way that suits their personality, philosophy, lifestyle & work commitments best.
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Can I throw something else in to the mix. The sqn has a cadet number of over 80 and currently 4 SNCO’s (no WO) and one additional officer in addition to the CO and 5 Ci’s including myself.
If I’m right this puts the Sqn at capacity for SNCO’s
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I wouldn’t worry about this aspect as SNCO & officer established can be exceeded. However as a CO I would worry a little about future resilience and the future CO if there was only one officer to replace me.
The choice to go into uniform needs to be right for you, not because it make things easier at the Sqn.
I started as a CI specialising in shooting (despite being told by a WO that it was “an NCO role & I shouldn’t do it”). It really helped me gain an understanding of the military paperwork, RAMs, Ridk assessments, activity planning & running things. I took teams down to Bisley & got cadet 100s all before commissioning.
I think one of the remaining differences between SNCO & Officer is the mindset around timescale planning.
An officer is often planning with a view to three to five years where an SNCO is often focused on that immediate task in front of them & the problem to be solved. (This is a generalisation but a reasonable one).
If you can plan your shooting teams with a three year progression then do consider the more detailed route to commissioning.
If you are more focused on the immediate shooting events & pure throughput then SNCO maybe more your preference.
I think either way the extra training your CO is offering you to commissioning would be worth exploring regardless of whether you go Officer, SNCO or remain a CI.
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It’s a lot easier to walk away if you’re a CI.
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It’s just as easy to walk away if you’re in uniform. We’re volunteers, putting a uniform on does not create any obligations in the same way that joining the reserves would
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And as I’ve found out, even as a CI they’ll dictate where you go anyway. So being in uniform makes no odds on that sense.
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The way things are currently structured, personally I think SNCO entry should be the default rather than CI, with those suitable encouraged to be selected for commissioning. Basically, like the ACF.
In my ideal world, we’d do away with DE SNCO entry (except for non-commissioned aircrew) and use the full range of RAF ranks for adults, with civilian status only used by exception when needed to retain experience and skills that would otherwise be lost.
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I’ve just walked away from being in uniform. It took a handful of WhatsApp messages.
Not sure walking away as a CI is any easier than that.
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My experience is that while walking away is the same whether in uniform or not, saying ‘no’ while remaining in the org is a great deal easier if you’re a CI than it is if you’re in uniform - and that’s not just, or even particularly, external pressure in you to do stuff you don’t want to, it’s internal pressure on you, by you, to do stuff you think you ought to do, but don’t want to.
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That last sentence is the reason it doesn’t happen I imagine.
Plenty of CIs have absolutely no interest in going into uniform whatsoever. They’re keen to teach the cadets part of the syllabus, run stores, do the sports nights etc, but that’s it.
To me if they want to do that, great. Why does that need to be the exception?
To force everyone into a 6 or 7 tall non-commissioned pyramid seems like you’re potentially sledgehammering a nut.
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Well, the ACF is now bigger than RAFAC and, whilst they do have them, civilian assistants are few and far between.
Yeah, certainly no question in that it works well for them!
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Exactly — and the only difference is that, when sgt is your normal entry point, you take away the pretence that going into uniform in a voluntary organisation is a massive commitment or undertaking (over and above what CIs are already doing).
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It doesn’t - locally they’re struggling for volunteers & their induction process is taking too long to get new volunteers in & active at units. If everyone goes into uniform everyone needs that minimum standard.
CCFs have been working far longer & far more effectively without senior NCOs so you could argue that’s the better system.
You need to make best use of a volunteer in those first few years of them volunteering so you need them to accelerate through the ranks quite quickly. You cannot achieve this with linear progression which just adds bureaucracy & doesn’t deliver what is needed.
But this is an old debate, with many skirmishes fought across the galaxy of threads across this forum & the ATC & not especially pertinent to the OPs original question.
I agree with those saying enjoy your time as a CI and get some more experience. I spent 6 years as a CI. Now I’m an OC I find it very difficult to find time to gain new skills and qualifications as I’m forever running the Sqn, ensure the admin is in order, sorting out safeguarding incidents, making sure the H&S is adhered to and making sure staff & cadets don’t go rogue. The organisation is going through a lot of change atm and it may be better to see how the dust settles to see if NCO or Officer is the right route for you. No matter what route you choose, your contribution to developing those cadets is what matters and is what those cadets will remember, no matter what rank you are.
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If we did away with things like the arbitrary 16 hour commitment and promotion matrixes that serve very little purpose in a voluntary organisation then I’d possibly be on board.
But as it stands the barrier to entry, just in terms of faf, is too high.
You will still alienate those who just don’t feel comfortable putting combats on. Parents of cadets may be more than happy to help for a few years whilst their child is a cadet, and we need that sort of support. To force them to join the military (granted its scouts with berets but to some people having a MOD90 etc does feel like the military) will put some people off.
If a CI just wants to run swimming and the odd sports night, great. SNCO as it stands just doesn’t work for them.
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And yet it works perfectly well in the ACF.
Well if it’s truly faultless and can’t possibly be improved on in any way whatsoever and everyone in the ACF is behind it let’s introduce it tomorrow!
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