Sorry, way behind on this. I don’t know of any CCF(RAF) units with their own banners, but then I didn’t even know any had their own badges TBH. The only experience I have with banner drill was our ATC75 parade and then we borrowed the Corps Banner and the local ATC sqn (part of the reunion) did the banner drill so we didn’t have to learn it!
Any light you could shed on CCF policy on banners etc would be great, especially if there’s a POC I can contact to make sure we don’t have any accidental conflicts.
The more I think about this - the more it doesn’t make sense that CCF(RAF) sections have their own badge.
ATC sqns use the ATC approved badge as their template with red ring & astral crown.
If an ATC unit doesn’t have its own badge it uses the ATCs
But CCFs aren’t part of the ATC but part of a different corps & use the CCF badge if they don’t have their own.
But the CCF badge is a different template to the ATC badge so shouldnt CCF(RAF) sections that want their own badge use that template instead of the ATC template?
1 Like
I have never seen a CCF unit with their own badge, so I have no idea how they look!
It’s a great question.
I would look to other organisations out there and notice they tend to follow a certain style.
Joint units, the couple of them I know about (space command) are purple but otherwise the same.
So when you take a badge that has all three crowns in, it does make sense to place the relevant one atop the badge.
Then sticking a scroll beneath and you’re only really tweaking the rest of it slightly. It’s already round and already red.
The point underscoring this would be that Garter King of Arms does not conform to precedent, so just as the office isn’t bound, it’s also free to consider the best way forward whenever something novel arises.
Somewhere I have a CCF flying suit patch. I bought the last one from Terrane as they discontinued it. It’s the CCF roundel, with a crown on top and scroll beneath, so it looks the shape of an RAF badge but it’s actually the CCF one. I’ll dig it out. But, it exists precisely because of a desire to make the CCF roundel look like a badge.
𝗧𝗵𝖾 𝗖𝗖𝖥 𝗯𝗮𝗱𝗀𝖾 𝗜𝖲 𝗮 𝗯𝗮𝗱𝗀𝖾.
2 Likes
Sounds cool! Look forward to seeing that
1 Like
Depends whether Garter King of Arm is an old boy from the CCF in question & agreed it over a handshake & a glass of port while watching the 1st XI cricket.
2 Likes
So interestingly had cause to look at our Sqn banner the other day which was made in the late 80s
The inner bit of the ATC badge is the colour background rather than white so I wonder if back then someone (incorrectly) proscribed that as the “correct” design hence some of the issues & conventions now.
1 Like
Nah it’s just a very common mistake but has never been correct.
Possibly as a result of the fact the parchment upon which the badges are painted are off-white, so anyone who doesn’t know better might assume there’s no background if it hasn’t been explicitly painted.
More recently that has resulted in loads of random .png files being created and, you guessed it, the centrepiece hasn’t been given a white background.
My unit banner has the same issue and eventually it’ll be replaced (waiting until our unit badge is complete and then doing a double order on banners).
If you go somewhere like NewtonNewton, they’ll get that right.
It’s something I need to make sure the other suppliers know.
4 Likes
206 (Thornton-Cleveleys) Sqn have a similar arrangement that was made by some of their staff in years gone by, I beleive back when 206 was based at Kinloss.
While incorrect by regulation I dont necessarily disagree with the sentiment, if the RAF Squadron want to allow the use their artwork then that parenthood seems positive in my mind particularly if they keep up a good relation with the cadet unit (although a bit impractical in most cases I imagine). Execution could be better perhaps though, perscription that the artwork must be transposed onto a ATC crest would probably be the minimum as some seem to just slap the RAF squadron crest on and call it a day.
Allas, its not to be nore will it ever be I doubt, so probably worth them just getting with the programme…
1 Like
It’s clearly a nice sentiment. It’s just not correct.
A simple error made in good faith, but something that can’t be made to work because of the very nature of what badges represent.
3 Likes
So I think the thing to be aware of is “carry forward” errors - where the new banner is made the same as the old banner including replication of previous errors.
1 Like
They recently renewed that association with the reformed sqn at Brize if I’m not wrong. Still not right, but I love the octopus mascot
Absolutely. This is why I want to reach out to all known providers to clarify what units should be getting and to ask that no matter how adamant, we don’t let them spend money on something incorrect.
People normally seek to emulate what they see in the wild, first and foremost.
2 Likes
I suppose the advice in that case would be to take what they have and reinvent it, there is potential they could do an element of an octopus although the essay has to explain it and give it meaning 
2 Likes
I’m pretty sure there’s already an RAF unit with an octopus.
But yeh, it’s all about strong justifications.
“We’ve always had an octopus” or “this RAF unit with the same number had this” isn’t really a good justification.
2 Likes
There were 206 camps up to kinloss almost yearly before their disbandment.
The ATC Sqn OC is a regular who used to be posted to Brize (where the new 206 resides) So I believe he’s working on getting that kind of thing up and running again. The local area has nothing really of note historically or culturally that hasn’t already been nabbed by another unit (there are far too many Sqns in the area)
Even just an octopus head should prabably satiate their desire for a link
A post was merged into an existing topic: RAFAC Heraldic Badges