Can JNCO courses be run at squadron

Quick question can JNCO courses be run at squadron level like the MOI courses. As we have a batch of new JNCOs who need to do courses but the next weekend is 2 months away with no guarantee of places on the course.

There are no set requirements for the content of a JNCO course, unlike others, as it is not a formal qualification as such. Therefore you’re free to run as you wish, however it may be beneficial to cadets to be tested by wing-level staff whom they are not familiar with, to see how they cope outside of their comfort zone. Saying that I ran a JNCO course at my squadron a few months ago and it went down a treat. It’s all about planning.

ACTO07 (specifically annex b) states otherwise.

Most wings have a structure in place to deliver courses. Ensure you are not stepping on heels. Some wings also have local promotion eligibility criteria based around Wing run NCO courses

However, there’s no set Pre-JNCO Course course…

:wink:

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True that…for now

Complete with brassard badge.

@Caolan753, there’s nothing wrong with running something along the lines of an NCO course as a prepper - to help (hopefully) boost performance on a proper course, fill the gap if they don’t get places this time, and you can tailor bits for your unit as well.

My advice is check what the required prior knowledge and competencies are for the Wing course, train to those, and add extras as necessary for what you need.

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We as a wing have a cadet development course/workbook that’s a bridging course between first class classification and further knowledge required to be a Cpl.

If delivered and completed correctly it works a treat!

This runs along side blue leadership

Forgive me… that’s what I meant. Rebrand JNCO as P-JNCO or other ‘leadership development course’ and you’re sorted.

I’m quite happy to share the contents of our cadet development course if it’s of any use as a base to build up from

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That would be appreciated @AlexCorbin Thanks

Any chance I could get a copy as well Alex ?

or post it to the drive? :laughing:

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Moi aussi svp

…Or indeed a post-NCO course.

I don’t feel that there is sufficient time to cover everything which I think would be of benefit to an NCO in a two day course so I run additional training to take my guys from “satisfying the Wing course requirements” to “actually being an effective NCO”.

The courses cover a lot of theory - Limits of authority, “getting things done” (SMEAC & PICSIE), &c.
I then train them in many of the more practical aspects i.e. What are they actually going to be doing as a JNCO/SNCO.
Things like extraction of orders. Not in a full-on battle sense, but in the same vein. During blue badge leadership and the JNCO course they are used to being given a “standard” individual briefing in SMEAC form and simply reiterating that to their team… In the real world that rarely happens. They need to be able to extract their own “mission” from a bigger plan and create their briefing accordingly.

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Yet Acp 20 clearly states an OC can promote up to the Rank of FS. With recommendations only on classification level required.

Yet again. A Wing adding more bureaucracy and red tape into the system.

Wing nco courses and training is great. Except when you have an exceptional candidate who for whatever reason (weekend commitments) cannot make the training or assessment days.
Then the system works against them. What then. How do you figure that?

Hardly seems inclusive…

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At the end of he day it comes down to commitment & priorities, if they can’t take 1 weekend off of there other commitment to do an NCO Course then surely that’s the choice of the individual.

I have a fairly robust set of essential criteria before I will consider a Cadet for promotion, I then also have written my own policy with flexibility in case I need it. (I as the Officer running the selection process can on a case by case basis provide exemptions for a maximum of 1 of my essential criteria).

As long as what is expected is very clear and open it’s fair for all.

TBH “development” of cadets should be at sqn and ongoing at the sqn and just use the Wing things for consolidation, if they fit into people’s schedules, not the be all and end all. The Wing courses are IMO far too short for anything more. I don’t get the idea of a lack of commitment if they can’t go on a Wing NCO course, it’s not mandatory like things staff have to do are made. Cadet’s do this like we do as a “hobby” and shouldn’t have expectations to do anything more than have a good time. Wings playing silly sods making them compulsory should be told get a life. If a sqn commander or the sqn staff don’t know their cadets and or able to bring them on, then maybe they aren’t the right people.
I do wonder what went wrong in the ATC that we now seemingly have to have these courses? Being an NCO was passed “father to son” by generations of NCOs and , then at some point in the last 10-15 years something went badly awry and now we subject cadets to courses, the content of which should be done on sqns on a trickle basis. We have cadets do parade night duties, shadowing NCOs from almost day one and doing basic drill movements shadowed by me or the senior adult SNCO after 6-9 months.
I would proffer there is a strong correlation with the advent of the ATC’s adult SNCO structure and these cadet courses are for their benefit more so than cadets.
I accept that these views won’t be widely liked.

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I agree with Teflon here. We do most of our NCO training on the contingent. When cadets go on the TEST organised JNCO/SNCO courses I’ve not really noticed any difference from the cadets who do the in house training

In my wing, although there is some training on NCO courses, they are also primarily an assessment and external feedback course for the CO’s.
Most training happens on squadron.

I think the reason for all the extra courses is to justify the existence of the high number of Wing Appointments we seem to have floating around, and that is when Sqns remain short staffed.

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