Soo, bit of crazy one, but curious to find out peoples thoughts!
Since the invasion of Ukraine, the UK and Ukraine have publicy announced they will support any UK national who wishes to join the fight against Russia by joining the foreign legion of Ukraine.
For example, if one of our cadets (legal age) decided that they want to join the fight and for whatever reason, we found out about their decision, how should we as CFAVs respond to their decision? Would we as CFAVs need to report this as a “safeguarding/security” concern? Should we discourage their decisions as “experienced” mature adults? Should HQAC produce/publish a policy?
As a military youth organisation and in particular as an officer/NCO, we need to maintain impartiality when it comes to these types of issues, so this is where this scenario may be tricky to approach in certain situations.
Just curious in case this happens at Squadron Level
I’m guessing their parents will ask them where they are going with their rucksack. Any person of legal age, I’m guessing you mean 18+? There is not a lot we can do is there?
Yes even though they are of legal age and they can make their own decisions, but ultimately, they are still cadets and could potentially be breaking the law. Just look at other recent stories of British Nationals going to fight in other countries, they have then been prosecuted for Terrorism. Surely, we have a responsiblity to prevent that from happening if we know what they intend to do.
I’m all for protecting freedom and democracy and expecially with whats happening, I believe it is courageous for anyone regardless of background, to help protect our freedoms!
Even more so, it would be wrong for that cadet to use his “cadet military skills” in regards to the process to join the fight
The other incidents related to people joining proscribed terrorist organisations. The Ukrainian Military is a recognised Military force and as such joining it or going to fight alongside it is not a criminal offence.
There is ample precedence for this, the wars in the former Yugoslavia and those who have gone to fight with the Israeli military are obvious examples.
Do I think it’s a good idea for Cadets to go and fight the Russians? No and if they asked me I would tell them as much. But there if they are over 18 there is nothing that anyone can do to prevent them from doing so because they are adults.
This is a problem for parents. However iIf they are 18 and want to, not a lot to be done even parents would have little chance of stopping them.
As a parent - advise all you like, if they don’t listen, let them do it and then work with the consequences afterwards, which you would hope is this instance is only a told you so. Most of us have been young and done things against advice of others.
If they’re over 18, it’s their decision ultimately, but I’d advice very, very strongly against.
As the Defence Secretary said yesterday, an untrained person, with no combat experience, is likely to put themselves and those around them who have to support them, at risk. Add to that the language issue, in many cases, and the risk of escalation if they get captured.
There are lots of other ways to provide support, whether at home or outside the war zone.
If they are over 18 there is nothing we can do to prevent them apart from saying that they would need to hand their kit back & cancel subs (unless they intend to use teams from Kyiv),
Under 18 then they need to discuss with parents as they need to remain in education.
There is a legal ban but it isn’t really enforced.
I would also point out that it may be a bar if they wanted to join the regular military or public service.
I would try to dissuade then from Going to fight in a foreign military & even suggest that they could make a bigger difference in the UK. This would be harder with cadets from Poland or Ukraine as it’s something that would need careful handling.
However if we had a cadet that wanted to go to Ukraine as a volunteer for the Red Cross & RC were happy to take them then I don’t think I would be able to dissuade as they would have given a more nuanced decision.
Not disagreeing with your overall point of not recommending cadets go off to Ukraine but what exactly can people in the U.K. do besides donating money to charity?
I doubt Putin cares about the various protests across the country, or writing a letter to your local MP asking them to support the U.K/NATO to create a no-fly zone would make a shred of difference.
My thinking is was that if you have someone that determined & eligible to go into the fray then encouraging them to join the uk armed forces instead where
they will get proper training
it will take a little while to go through so time to think
if the balloon goes up & NATO becomes involved then the individual would be able to make a greater difference with UK armed forces than as an amateur partisan.
Sometimes we will not be able to dissuade or divert but we can delay which allows them time to think.
I think the comments above echo the “their over 18 so they can do what they like” so instead pick up this
Given one of our aims is to provide skills useful I’m military life I suggest their Cadet experience puts them ahead of “the next man”.
I’m not suggesting the Average Air Cadet would make a good private, nor am I support or encouraging the idea of Cadets of any format going out to Ukraine but taking the point of view of a (perhaps nieve) 18 Yr old they make accept they are no invincible but could believe they “could be useful” based on the (limited) exposure the RAFAC provides to a military organisation
I feel It’s stopping the Russians in their tracks because their risk assessment isn’t in the correct format and they forgot to submit a TOPL are the key skills our cadets could bring to the party
Very good point - an aim surprised their is nothing fro HQAC on this. It’s noticeable that some squadrons have changed there social portrait piiccys to the Ukrainian flag - perhaps laudable but we should be impartial as you say.
Well since my post yesterday, there has been an update from the Chief of Defence People on Defence Connect . Looks like a blanket policy banning travel to Ukraine. Maybe the RAFAC will follow suit
You realise the RAFAC is a youth group don’t you? We have as much power to ban members from travelling to Ukraine as the Pontypandy pioneers have to stop Norman Price enlisting in the French Foreign Legion.
The most we could do is apply our current policy of kicking people out if they join the armed forces.
