Cadet NCO Promotion Criteria ACTO

Furthermore. Just because a wing or somebody stands up and says “we think this is best practice” doesnt mean it is.

Sorry but this is utter, utopian driven tosh.

By all means give some ideas to the kind of things that we should hope / expect Cadets to have done etc. However, this just demonstrates that whoever sat in their ivory tower and wrote this has little appreciation of what is going on, and the practicalities of achieving all these items.

OC’s are the ones to decide. OC’s know their Cadets, and understand what each individual has done, achieved, and the challenges they faced in doing so. OC’s also know what can and can’t be done on the matrix, for all the reasons already stated.

I thought part of our job was to develop and bring on the Cadets, using discretion and common sense, responding to individual needs and achievements. If this is forced through all we are doing is ticking a box on an HR form and justifying someone else’s existence.

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I would like to know what has prompted this hogwash? This sort of thing comes down from on high with no real rationale. I suspect that somewhere in it is this “high calibre” nonsense that HQAC throw up like it were a dodgy seafood platter at a buffet, that by the fact people acquire a few bits of paper (seems to be a growing trend) for just turning up for things, they will become a better individual.

Frankly I feel we should be letting the kids who join the ATC focus on what is really important … their formal school exams and not be putting expectations for doing this and that for what is, when all said and done an after school club, to meet up with some mates and have some fun. I will guarantee that there will be one local sqn where these will go up on the wall and be stuck to with religious fervour and the rest of us will pay it what it deserves, lip service.

Where are the little things we all see in cadets that make them stand out from the others that can’t be attributed to a course or anything else. I would sooner promote youngsters like this than some badge and course junkie, waving this in my face saying they should be promoted.

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This is what all HR departments nationwide do to justify in many cases an over-inflated salary and their jobs at which they have to do as they are incapable of generally anything productive,

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I actually have a set of promotion guidelines I use, but I don’t rigidly stick to them for the reasons above. They are aspirational rather than compulsory.

I agree with the concept of a published list of the sorts of things I would expect an NCO to have done/have, but these are ALWAYS tempered with facts around availability of courses, practical considerations and the like.

Once you make these lists mandatory you lose that oversight and pragmatism and you deskill your staff.

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Then the issue is more about the content of the matrix, rather than the concept of a matrix itself.

I have seen many cadets get to the end of their academic training, apply for promotion once. Get knocked back (with or without feedback), perhaps try a second time, and if not successful they tend to fizzle out and drift away from the corps.

If the sqn only has capacity for x number of nco’s, then there is no business case for developing specific training to motivate and improve those cadets - because if the vacancy never arises they will never get promoted no matter how good they are.

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that is a very narrow minded viewpoint.

firstly Units do have a limited capacity (when applied the policy).

Secondly the average “Cadet career” is still less than 2 years. if promotion isn’t possible first time round there is a good chance there will be a place in 6 months time. Promotions in my experience (on several units i’ll add) occur at least twice a year, typically threes times and on occasion four times a year so to claim “the vacancy” never arises is a foolish concept.

In the last 9 months we have had two occasions when promotions were applied, as older Cadets age out and leave opening the door for everyone to get the chance to step up…

Then we must be doing something different. Most of ours do at least 3 yrs. those that stay beyond basic training are normally there at least until exams hit, with a fair proportion ageing out at 18 having started at 13.

We went a couple of years with no NCO promotions. And only 3 rounds in the last 3 yrs.

3 flights, 17 current NCO’s and 71 still of cadet rank.

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not the use of “average”

where this “2 year” figure comes from but I have seen it several times, over several years.

in my experience most do stay past this, like you I see Cadets stick around for 3+ years, but not all do…

however we are very much doing things differently if you have gone “years without promotions” is surely more influential “motivation” and a failing to “improve those cadets” because promotions never occur they’ll not strive for it than any need to hit a tick box matrix

The stats will be skewed by those that join, get entered into Bader but then leave after a month because it’s ‘not for them’.

We lost 3 promotion worthy cadets last year, and I believe they should have been given the chance instead of the 3 that were promoted. Which 1 rarely comes anymore and 1 has left altogether with the last one trying her best :roll_eyes:

Length of service should not be part of the equation nor should classification or any other sort of badge.
The things that make the best NCOs are those things acquired through experiences which bring confidence. I’ve had numerous cadets get promoted and do a much better job than others I’ve seen who have got lots of badges etc.
But you can’t tick boxes or make shiny posters for these things.

The biggest problem with this is provision wrt courses. For this scheme to work you would need one a fortnight somewhere in each area in each Wing, so as not to bring in a degree of discrimination.

I think leadership is a bit too esoteric to have on there, even though we use the prescriptive tick box method. The feedback from our cadets that attend is not worthwhile as there are too many attendees. When I ask them how it went, you can see they’re unsure how to say didn’t like it and learned nothing, but their body language gives it away, so I just ask them.

i have to agree.

when asked how is 123 Squadron nowadays a typical response would be “oh we’re doing well, we;ve got 45 on the books now” as if numbers is a direct indication of success.

there are units I know of which 60+ on the books, but they still only parade in the 30s…

for some reason this organisation is keen to measure success or suitability on features which are no fit for purpose, tell the whole story or are a determination of eligibility.

what is the solution i hear you cry?

stop with these silly tick boxes which promote badge collecting/attendance gathering persons to simply jump through hoops to become eligible when “merit” is a far better judge - judged by those who are on the ground!

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The numbers game is pointless one but people still play it, not realising that it’s all cyclical and determined largely by the numbers of eligible schoolchildren in your locale.

Too late and for some it gives them something to hide behind wrt decision making.

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Then run your own.

Blue should be done at a squadron level anyway, and bronze can be done as a collaboration between local units.

I’ve had alot of very good feedback from my Wing’s Bronze and Silver leadership courses.

However, unless someone can link to this document on bader, we’re all just complaining about a document written by a chimpanzee who was scratching its left elbow.

Things like this should always be allowed to be considered guidelines rather than actual rules (a bit like the pirates’ code). Rigid requirements mean some deserving cadets miss out. In the ACF, we have no requirements beyond the APC star levels. This gives staff the freedom to promote those who deserve it and will do a good job in reality, as opposed to what is said on paper. I once had a cadet whom I promoted to LCpl after 11 months service. Unheard of for most cadets, but she went on to become a CSM and Master Cadet, and holds the record for fastest achievement of master cadet in the county. Obviously she was exceptional, but that is the point, isn’t it?

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Whilst I’ve given this issue a bashing earlier in thread, suppose this should serve as an attempt to stop some of the promotions that happen that should never happen. I can think of coming across Cadet NCO’s, both as a Cadet and Staff myself and wondered how on earth they were promoted.

Of course the answer is poor decisions on promotion by Squadron OC, at least this should make those think a bit, but Cadets shouldn’t be used as a tool to correct the Staff!

Tick boxes and numbers provide a stick to which squadrons can be beaten into submission, merger or closure.

When those above Squadron level at sector wing or regional level don’t provide help and support to struggling Squadrons the above happens or unless this is an intended consequence.

Same with some staff members as well.