BTP, Is it any good?

Hi, just a quick question,
Does BTP, or any other knock off MTP styled camouflage material look good against MTP? Im looking for a genuine issue 45L bergen, but they are too expensive and out of my price range, A couple of BTP ones look similar, but I don’t want it to look stupidly out of colour against my PCS MTP uniform.
Thanks! :slight_smile:

It’s a bag, I’m sure it’ll look fine. I’m still using DPM and OG and they look fine…

However - just buy a used DPM one. It’ll be better made, cheaper and when you come to get rid of it, will be worth the same as you paid for it. If you’re trying to buy something new that’s cheaper than the genuine thing, then there will be a reason for the lower price.

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Will have a look, cheers :slight_smile:
Another quick one, any recommendation on size when worn with PLCE webbing? so it doesnt just sit on top of the pouches etc?

Webbing is designed to have rucksacks sit on top of the pouches?

You won’t have a problem with a daysack. The problem usually/used to come with a Bergan, even though new Bergans are designed for use with webbing, so there’s no need to get a shortback over a longback. You only need a small daysack, around the 35 litre mark.

Get Olive Green, looks far better and means you can use it for a lot more different activities. You don’t really want to be seen cutting about with a DPM/MTP daysack or clothing outside of cadets these days for PERSEC.

Edit: misread your post, thought you said daysack. No need to buy a Bergan, get a daysack. Buy a grade 1 DPM Bergan if your so keen for one. They are designed for use with webbing.

I still use a the same CS95 pattern Bergen I was issued with 20 years ago, in fact I didn’t think new bergens were still issued as we were all given the new style black kitbag/rucksack things to replace them in the regulars.

The 45litre Bergen is more of a daysack size than the 120litre old school infantry Bergen. It’s an alright size, but perhaps a little to small for use as a proper Bergen and too big for use as a daysack. What do you want it for?

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The black grips are for civvies/travelling in civvies although they stick out like a sore thumb. Easy to ping them across a train station. They were utter rubbish two. Flimsy naff waste of money.

Best thing we did was to ditch them or use them for sections stores for transit and bought different colour hold-alls for personal kit and PERSEC.

I agree with the above, the 45 litre “daysack” is a small Bergan with zips for side pouches. If your intent on getting one go for a smaller Olive green daysack. It’s too big for a Cadet daysack and too small for a decent field Bergan (although might be better as a Cadet bergan).

Plus Olive green and DPM look ally and old school :wink:

Berghaus Crusader or Cyclops everyday of the week. Still got my issued one and there is nothing out there that comes close to these.

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We’re told to use the black ones with uniform as well, as they are personal issue - the only time I’ve been given a bergen in recent years was deployment to the Falklands and was issued in-theatre on a loan card as they were stock limited.

Must be trade dependant. Stuff wearing those gash black ones in uniform though. They look horrendous. And ripped so easily. Horrendous waste of money.

Agree with the quality - my shoulder strap plastic adjustment clip broke almost immediately meaning that I had to tie it in a knot.

That’s the reason I’m glad I kept my old “Proper” bergen :raised_hands:

I think my point in replying to this thread was that in reality, I very rarely see everyone using the same matching bergens/daysacks in a unit. Use whatever suits you because at the end of the day, YOU have got to carry your stuff and YOU have got to be comfortable. If you’re spending time struggling with kit then you’re mind isn’t going to be on the task and even infantry units use a tremendous amount of personal kit in order to make their life easier.

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Interesting you mention that, I just sent two of my cadets off to a fieldcraft weekend with issue 45 litre bergens with side pouches and webbing, mainly because although we have infantry bergens in stores, I was not confident that they could carry them. (Heck, they could fit inside them!)
I will be interested to see how they get on!

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If you pack well and have decent kit, you can use the 45L “bergen” as your main rucksack. The problem will come with those who don’t have expensive sleeping bags which compress to a very small size! Another problem is that you can’t use your daysack as a daysack if you are using it as a bergen, unless you want to carry all your kit all the time!

There is no problem using MTP “compatible” materials on things like daysacks, bergen and webbing, just not clothing!

the 45 makes a rubbish daysack for cadets, and a rubbish rucksack for cadets - its too big for the first and too small for the second…

if you want a daysack that will fit alongside belt-kit go for something in the 30 litre range, and like others i’d strongly suggest going for an olive green one rather than an MTP/BTP/multicam one - it looks fine, it works on the field and you don’t look like a lunatic ewhen you take it hillwalking.

the best out there are the Berghaus Munro, KarrimorSF Sabre and the new Berghaus Centurio. ebay is your friend… if you fancy something a bit different try the Alpkit Gourdon in Kelp.

if you want a bergen (70/80/90/etc… litre) don’t worry about it fitting your belt-kit - you are simply too small to carry a fully loaded bergen and belt-kit for more than 50 yards, so its not an issue. what matters is its practicality, durability, cost and whether its comfortable for you to carry for 8 hours a day.

if you want to buy new have a look at Vango’s DofE range, if you fancy something a bit ally go on ebay and find a Berghaus Vulcan (£80), Berghaus Cyclops Crusader (£60) or Cyclops Roc (£50).

i’ve got the Roc and the Crusader, both have done multiple Balkan, Iraq and Afghan tours, and despite being 30 years old are in excellent nick. the Roc will hold everything i need for a 5 day backpack across Wales or Scotland in winter, the Crusader will carry more because its even larger, but unless you’re doing a 3 week walk across Canada, you simply don’t need to carry that amount of stuff…

Unless you detach the side pouches, zip them together and use them with a “jet pack” yoke?

No, as you will need those pouches to hold things that you couldn’t fit in the bergen. :smiley:

I recommend the Karrimor SF Predator 30 myself as the back pad is removable, so you can take it out and use without, or place it in your bergen when not using the daysack. This means you can then easily fold the daysack for stashing underneath the bergen lid. I have no idea why it can’t be removed on this issue daysack!

I’ve been looking at the karrimor SF predator and Sabre, the look very good for price, and of a size that will work with belt kit (managed to get lucky and acquire both dpm and MTP :slight_smile: ) however, would 30L be enough to fit a sleeping bag (small), change of uniform, basha, all the odds and sods that don’t live in my belt kit, and a roll mat on the outside? And I like the olive green idea, means I don’t look stupid on non-cadet stuff! If it lasts then that’s also a positive as I’m hopefully going to be joining the force soon in the next couple years, so anything that is suitable then would also be good!

30L is rather too small for CEMO.

Bear in mind that an infantry bergen with jetsacks is 100L, and the needs (in terms of gear) of a cadet aren’t that much less than a soldier - I’d say that with sleeping bags, spare kit, basha, roll mat, food, waterproofs, et al that you’d maybe be just about ok with the 45+20L bergen (if your sleeping bag is fairly small).

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Agree with that - the hard core adventure racers use 30l for overnight trips, and the truth is their gear is frighteningly expensive and they are bloody uncomfortable!

Unless you’re spending £200 on a 2 season sleeping bag and buying Arc’teryx waterproofs and a Patagonia duvet jacket, your overnight stuff isn’t going to fit in a 30l bag…

The 45 is a good size for bivvy trips and long winter mountain days - and if you do those regularly then fine - but it’s massive for a day at the range or spring/summer/autumn daysack.

If you can find an old/cheap Munro on eBay you could send it to Dixie’s Corner near Sennybridge - they’ll stick PLCE zips on it so you could attach the two Bergen side pockets - however, to me, that looks like a non-problem going in search of an expensive solution.

My personal choice would be to find a 70/80/90l Bergen that fits and that you’re happy with, and when you’re doing overnight stuff that doesn’t fit it up just don’t bother compressing the sleeping bag - a massive Bergen that actually weighs very little is well ally, and ally saves lives…