Is this a threat to RAFAC/ CCF (RAF), an advantage as can be used alongside or no effect at all?
I think this could be a real risk.
One of our local schools has just advertised for someone to carry out this instructor role on their premises.
Weâre really good at taking cadets with absolutely no interest in flying and making them realise itâs pretty awesome.
Weâre not the best at getting those already interested in flying airborne, considering the amount of time they spend with us.
Someone else focussing on that USP and providing wrap-around flying training could be problematic.
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I would say no, it is probably suited to those who can afford to go flying without praying for a single, maybe two flying slots during their ATC membership.
True. But it is possible to fund/subsidise lessons (ok probably only for small numbers, but I know Scout groups have used fund raising etc to pay for the equivalent of AEF)
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This is the advert I see advertised
In numbers this could be a risk & certainly kill off RAF sections in CCFs who are struggling as it is & the the insistence of bader over Westminster is preventing further development.
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I hadnât actually thought about it from the position of CCF (RAF) sections.
Much bigger threat.
Might need some direct engagement.
It looks like their programme is very similar to our aviation training. I can see this appealing to those who arenât interested in the AT or military skills side of what we do, or are put off by âbullâ.
And when you throw in that CCF only have one or two hours of training a weekâŚâŚ
this.
Interestingly there is nothing about costs in FAQs so needs further digging around.
I have found the following:
A four hour session, 2 hours ground school, 2 hours in the sim, with 30 minutes at the controls - ÂŁ155
a weekâs âholiday clubâ for ÂŁ850 non-residential.
these do not come across as âvalue for moneyâ in my mind versus other opportunities. Nor do they feel like these are open to everyone on the street given the costs involved.
It does highlight an opportunity for us.
If we decide that sim flying should become a bigger part of our ongoing offer, appropriately funded (perhaps leaning into gliding more and providing cadets as flight staff cadets in a secondary gig on weekends â the new MSFS has gliders) then perhaps we can make a point of trying to recruit specialist staff who are qualified pilots of some sort.
âAviation Specialistâ, just so itâs a little different to the RAFâs more junior ranks.
In my blue ATP instructors course there was a qualified civilian flying instructor & a full airline captain.
All had to do the course before they could instruct cadets as 2FTS didnât recognise their quals.
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Either we were on the same course (and Im the Civi FI) ot it was a common factor amognst the Regional Training Sessions 
Im not convinced with the scheme - from the oversight of the ground âinstructorsâ they are hiring (i know of one who is just a PPL holder (maybe got his IR(R) - cant quite remember).
Based on those costs, if you can afford Private schooling you probably can afford to send your kid(s) on the âSummer Holiday Clubâ if they were for argument sake staying with a relative ÂŁ850 for most people is a cost of a summer holiday child place for 2 weeks (I know this a week) so it isnât too unreasonable cost wise. I think the âthreatâ for CCF (RAF) especially if the interest of the individual for AT/uniform isnât there could potentially be quite high, it will be interesting to see what developments come about in this space, itâs more the offering. If this turned into gliding/flying (physical rather than virtual) then I could see a problem.
based on the costs i see little threat at all.
RIAT for two weeks is costing ÂŁ20 (for most)
Annual Camp is costing under ÂŁ100
while i recognise this âholiday campâ is likely to see much more flying, ÂŁ850 is well out of the scope of the âaverageâ ATC Cadet family.
I cannot think of any ATC event which costs above ÂŁ500 other than Alpine Adventure i know was always pricey (for good reason) but that was a âspecialistâ camp and those selected were the top of their game.
Spending ÂŁ850 on a weekâs camp, which is not even residential is some commitment and well above the interest levels of 50%+ of our Cadets (while they have an interest in aviation, and enjoy flying, how many really, would enjoy the chance to learn how to flyâŚ?)
Most do. X-plane certainly does and there is a Viking model for it. Canât speak to P3D as we donât have a copy of that.
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For ATC cadet families maybe so, for me it will be interesting to see the development of this within the Private school sector. It is more of a threat to CCF (RAF) than ATC. Based on the dates mentioned in that particular advert for 1 adult and 1 child from Manchester to Tenerife using Jet2Holidays, per person, the minimum amount for a 15 year old on a self catering basis is ÂŁ636, which is where I start to think about priorities and the opportunities that these âholiday clubsâ are offering.
In the ATC world, you are likely to see that the vast majority of parents will easily pay the same amount of the âsummer holiday clubâ to take their child to sunnier climbs and to lay around the pool or on a sunbed for a week. With fee paying parents, if the offering becomes more than just a simulator, they are likely to drop them off there as ÂŁ850-1000 isnât a lot in terms of a holiday depending on the return.
The ways they that could make this a genuine threat is a link with accommodation based private school and a gliding/flying club. So the âholiday clubsâ become, âgliding holidaysâ.
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At one level itâs good to see aviation being promoted to young people.
But if we had a better aviation offer, there would be less of a need for this Iâm sure.
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i am still lost on what the benefit is on the basis of cost - and to be fair, there will be little that complete on cost than via the RAFAC given it is subsidised by the RAF.
Any civilian route will be by and large at civilian rates ~ÂŁ100-150/hour + for a flight, more for lessons.
the most cost effective route for getting airbourne is gliding, and the most effective way is via a civilian BGA club
Iâve had some contact from these people - itâs very much a commercial venture (not an âassociationâ) and run at commercial rates. If people can afford it, then I have no major concerns. I declined to set up a scheme in my school partly due to the threat it poses to the RAF section but more generally because we donât have the time in a busy 7-day a week school; but in a 5-day a week school it might well work on weekends. Also, as a school, we would probably need to carry out some 3PP assurance on it which I donât have the time or energy for.
Thereâs no doubt though that they have spotted a gap in the market - not only is there less AEF available than there used to be, but CCF no longer get an (unfair?) high share of it, and I get a lot of complaint from CCF parents who remember the 1980s and want to know why itâs not the same now. If they also have money, they can throw this at the problemâŚ