There is nothing to prevent cadets from learning how to interpret the information on a PFD, it is just not part of the blue ATP syllabus. The blue ATP syllabus requires cadets to recognize a traditional airspeed indicator, altimeter and turn and slip indicator. This will prepare them for when they see these instruments in a Tutor or Viking. It is really just reinforcing what they have learnt on the Leading Cadet Flying operations lessons. For the same reason I prefer to use an aircraft in the sim which has a turn and slip indicator (like the Tutor) as distinct from the turn coordinator found on most non aerobatic light aircraft.
No, this is what separates a safe pilot from a reckless one in the context of flexing rules to suit your own agenda.
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That sort of judgement has got a lot of people killed to this day, from captains disregarding the concerns of first officers.
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Is it acceptable to drive at 32 in a 30 if it means nuclear war can be avoided? Based on what youâve said you would instead choose all out nuclear war because thatâs what the bit of plastic at the side of the road says and youâve not yet heard back from the Highways Agency about your request for a temporary alleviation.
Extreme example? Absolutely. Does it prove the point? Absolutely.
If life was just rules we wouldnât need rank, wouldnât need any sort of structure. Thereâd be a rule for absolutely everything and we could all just follow them.
Empowering people to make common sense decisions should be fundamental to any successful organisation. Granted there have been some howling instances of where this hasnât been allowed to happen. Gliding anyone 
You have a fully rendered tutor cockpit on the screen, hurray. Below the monitor, and being ignored, is a PFD with a digital representation of whatâs displayed in duplicate. Mon Amis, Zut Alors, we must stop everything and ban these cadets from getting their blue badges. No! This is where WAvnO should look at it and go âyeah thatâs good enough, enjoy 
â
Itâs this blind adherence to rules, rules which oftenwere not written for the situation theyâre being applied to, that mean I need to do a full climatic injuries risk assessment for a cadet to be allowed to put some potatoes in a carrier bag at till 6 in my local Sainsburyâs. My local Sainsburyâs being an air conditioned, climatically controlled building maintained at a lovely 21 degrees year round, without a UV ray in sight, with a drop off point 9ft outside the main entrance. Without it my application will be flatly rejected.
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Badly worded, potentially.
Thatâs what the responsibility is for.
Situation - youâve got a flight with 400 passengers on it, fully loaded with cargo, everything ready to go. But then one of the ramp crew point out one of your nav lights is broken. You flick to the second system and itâs working again. Itâs broad daylight, and youâre flying IFR. An engineer will take an hour to get to the plane as theyâre on another job and youâll then be out of hours and the flightâs cancelled. The book says you need to get an engineer to sign to say you can go, which you can, as youâve got a spare set. What are you going to do?
Either person in a cockpit can make the decision, but only one of them has to ultimately sign for it, was more my point. Itâs the judgement of whatâs okay and whatâs not okay, thatâs the hard part.
Itâs an interesting discussion, clearly some strong opinions both ways.
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I think we need to retain some kind of context here.
We are trying to best prepare our cadets, in a synthetic environment, for what they can expect from their flying experience within the RAF Air Cadets, or by extension their local flying club.
This is going to be a Grob Tutor, Viking glider, or similar such as a PA28, C152/172 etc.
This aircraft will have a traditional steam powered 6 pack.
2FTS asking us to deliver effects of controls based upon this, and introducing instruments the cadet will see, is perfectly reasonable.
Delivering blue wings based on an F35 is not commensurate with the aircraft type the cadet will first get hands on with, so although yes; this is a legitimate set of flying instruments, is not in line with the reality.
We donât offer blue trained shot in shooting with lessons on how to use a guided missile system.
I am happy to challenge where it is required, but the blue wing syllabus and equipment is a good compromise from 2FTS on equipment available to squadrons, instructor sign off and future real life experience.
There are lots of things Iâd complain about. This isnât one of them.
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No. No it doesnât. You canât claim that your position is proven using a hypothetical and hyperbolic false equivalence.
And this simply isnât true. The existence of criminals proves that rules need someone with authority to enforce them. Every single scrap of research and observation on leadership indicates that a hierarchy is required for management.
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As in the aviation world, CRM dictates that if someone thinks itâs wrong then they must be able to challenge that management authority, same in healthcare. That is why we have checklists with go/no go answers, or as in HEMS particularly in the USA, all agree to go, or they donât lift or fly.
Apologies, this is getting off the point.
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The next gen training aircraft which soon replaces the current grob has a glass cockpitâŚI forget the name , itâs also produced by grob I thinkâŚa new Cessna 172 has a glass cockpitâŚ
Equally I can easily drag steam gauges onto the space where the mfsâs usually occupy- it just looks rubbish âŚ
Secondly where are the rules of blue badge actually written down and does anyone have an official copy?
One of our cadets has just qualified to teach blue wings as part of the current qaic that is being run- he has been told categorically ( because I made him ask) that no sign off of Sims is required- itâs up to the blue badge qualified instructor to make sure they are happy that the sim has whatâs requiredâŚ
So turns out wing officers signing off Sims is not a thingâŚitâs empire building, an adult phone conversation about what kind of SIM you have would be more than enoughâŚ
Itâs frustrating to have Sims of a higher standard than the qaic facilities and be told we have to set up a 20yr old program on a desktop joystickâŚ
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Grob prefect t1 !! Thereâs a wiki on itâŚ
Youâd probably pay more for steam gauges now if you wanted to buy a brand new aircraft, if you could even spec them.
Is there a single RAF aircraft that has steam gauges? Remember they donât use the Tutor anymore, itâs all Prefect.
Glad youâve had a better experience with the Blue ATP. Weâve got a fancy certificate in our building certifying that our simulator is up to the test of teaching a 12 year old what a rudder is. Hilariously itâs got a full reference number, which presumably means itâs logged on a database somewhere, and will need revalidation.
Itâs like needing full MOTs for a pushbike. Lovely in a world of infinite time and resources where waste isnât an issue. All a bit silly when it starts to hamper output.
I think a lot of people in here are losing sight of what the Blue ATP sim session is for.
Itâs designed to build on the Flying Operations ground school lessons and bridge between that and their first flight in a Tutor or Viking so they get the most out of their flight. As a result, steam gauges are required.
As and when cadets get their first flight in something with glass, be that Prefect (not happening), or upgraded Tutor T2, or 3 axis microlight with a Dynon display (we can all dream) then the syllabus will be changed. But not before then.
Nothing in the foregoing prevents you running a separate flight sim experience with your cadets hooning around the Welsh hills at low level in an F35. Hell, I do that myself as an optional extra. But itâs not the Flying Operations syllabus. (Nor, in my view, is it sensible until they have learned the basic facts of life, that you canât always power yourself out of trouble and that if you are stalling, you need to reduce the AoA.)
Rexan, I donât know if you fly, but if you do, please tell us where so we can avoid getting in an aircraft with you at the controls.
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Pretty confident it wint replace the tutor for cadets for several years though. And wont be the replacement aircraft given it being a turbo prop
Haha, you think cadets go in Vikings and Tutors. Bless.
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Using the Tutor in more diverse ways than we ever did.
Where have you got the idea from that we donât use the Tutor any more?
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Forgive me if I have made too much of the steam gauge aspect, the other objections were generally not liking the cockpits and not liking vr.
Iâm more than happy to load up a low powered prop trainer , so you get to learn about being behind the power curve etcâŚ( although non of that is relevant to the blue wings)
I just see no reason to be backward with things , sitting in vr in a trainer aircraft with an instructor sat behind you also in vr in the rear seat is pretty good training!!!
As for other training, a fair number of out cadets can now fly cross country flights, fly circuits and make decent landingsâŚ
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Viking
Lancaster
Hurricane
Dakota
Spitfire
Chipmunk
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Chinook does to a degree.
Has four main MFDs with the PFD on them as well as numerous gauges between them for other engine and flight parameters.
Thereâs also a SFD for backup and redundancy.
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