So what’s the latest on this? Anyone know? Not heard a peep since the interim report and procedures.
Interestingly I noticed the other day our ACF detachment we share a building with have withdrawn all ponchos and now issue 2 man tents to presumably get around the same problem…
[quote=“pEp” post=21929]So what’s the latest on this? Anyone know? Not heard a peep since the interim report and procedures.
Interestingly I noticed the other day our ACF detachment we share a building with have withdrawn all ponchos and now issue 2 man tents to presumably get around the same problem…[/quote]No. We have no bivvying ban. They just have 2 man tents.
[quote=“pEp” post=21929]So what’s the latest on this? Anyone know? Not heard a peep since the interim report and procedures.
Interestingly I noticed the other day our ACF detachment we share a building with have withdrawn all ponchos and now issue 2 man tents to presumably get around the same problem…[/quote]
The ACF still use bashas. We do sometimes use tents for non tactical exercises or have them pre setup on the area and use them for 1 night if the cadets arrive too late to setup bashas, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
Use of bashas is a requirement of the APC syllabus and has not changed.
Anyone have evidence to indicate this has been lifted yet?
No evidence at all, I believe that nearly a year on it is still in place.
Well, ACP 16 is still extant and the interim policy expired in oct last year so there would appear to be no more ban.
Except there kind of is…as far as I know the ban is still in place.
What is supposed to be happening is a “exercise commander” course which you must have been on to run an exercise. When this will happen I don’t know, but that’s the latest info I have.
Yes, that’s similar to the briefing I had from Sp Comd recently. Essentially the ATC incident has led them to wake up and realise they have an activity which has a risk and for which there is no training - not just for the ACO but for all cadet forces. They have been relying on ex-regulars/TA and those ‘trained’ by other CFAVs in the field, and they are massively exposed if there is an accident.
As such there is going to be a significant tightening of this area, though ACF/CCF(A) are not subject to a ban and CCF(RAF) can bivvy if they do so with their Army section and approved by the TSA.
One area they are looking at is equipment. This may be a problem for ATC. The plan is for ACF and CCF(A) to be scaled for bivvying equipment, and this and only this is to be used. This is a problem for CCFs many of which have their own perfectly good but unapproved equipment. I am lobbying for an approval process to prevent perfectly good equipment being thrown out because it is not from an approved source…
When you say “bivvying”, I assume you mean bashas? I think ACF counties are already scaled for bashas as our CAA has plenty that get issued out to cadets. I would be surprised if they aren’t as they are required equipment in the syllabus!
We have our own that we issue, but they are the current issue item as the civvy copies are always crap. We have a few old ones but they aren’t issued for use as a shelter
Interestingly I have not heard anything through the ACF of this incident which is very surprising. We received a new gas cooker policy a few months back after some non-cadet people had an accident with one!
[quote=“pEp” post=24045]Except there kind of is…as far as I know the ban is still in place.
What is supposed to be happening is a “exercise commander” course which you must have been on to run an exercise. When this will happen I don’t know, but that’s the latest info I have.[/quote]Well - there is no official paperwork stating that a ban exists.
Whether or not you could actually get approval for something outside that which was previously banned is another question entirely.
[quote=“pEp” post=24045]
What is supposed to be happening is a “exercise commander” course which you must have been on to run an exercise. When this will happen I don’t know, but that’s the latest info I have.[/quote]
Like this one that ran last February?
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.337254826481479.1073741833.197700220436941&type=3
[quote=“tango_lima” post=24069][quote=“pEp” post=24045]
What is supposed to be happening is a “exercise commander” course which you must have been on to run an exercise. When this will happen I don’t know, but that’s the latest info I have.[/quote]
Like this one that ran last February?
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.337254826481479.1073741833.197700220436941&type=3[/quote]
No, that’s for using weapons. What I’m talking about is a course to enable people to train in running an “advanced deployed exercise”.
[quote=“pEp” post=24070][quote=“tango_lima” post=24069][quote=“pEp” post=24045]
What is supposed to be happening is a “exercise commander” course which you must have been on to run an exercise. When this will happen I don’t know, but that’s the latest info I have.[/quote]
Like this one that ran last February?
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.337254826481479.1073741833.197700220436941&type=3[/quote]
No, that’s for using weapons. What I’m talking about is a course to enable people to train in running an “advanced deployed exercise”.[/quote]
The album caption implies that the M-qual course is the (or at least ‘a’) required Q to be an ECO…
Time to send the ACOCTT signal?
My FMS bods were told there was a new FMS policy coming out at the end of February, which was going to clear this up.
Personally I don’t get why there is this need for special rules. IF they’d applied similar rules that have applied to AT for donkey’s years, wrt qualifications and experience then FMS wouldn’t have got itself into this mess.
But it was always treated as a ‘fun activity’ carried out mostly by people with little or no real experience of it, with a desire to play soldiers, thus appealing to the inner child among many staff who like the idea of dressing up like a builder, crawling around in the mud, sleeping under a sheet and applying face paint, rather than a serious aspect of military life and training. But then maybe the ACO’s refusal to allow some realism to come into play has spawned this mindset, which created the situation for the incident last year.
Now they are trying to play catch up (with the usual urgency) after that incident and unless they get it right I can see FMS becoming almost non-existent as an activity for a good 12 months, as people try to get qualified. Just another one to add to the list. I’ve already got a lot more AT activities planned and in planning than we would ordinarly in case the FMS goes to pot.
[quote=“tango_lima” post=24071]
The album caption implies that the M-qual course is the (or at least ‘a’) required Q to be an ECO…
Time to send the ACOCTT signal?[/quote]
SA (M) 07 Cadet is the qualification required to plan and conduct and supervise cadet training when using blank ammunition and pyrotechnics. By supervise I mean the entire exercise, not individual cadets. The ECOs course we run features the use of pyrotechnics and blank ammunition, it is really about planning and conducting exercises.
ATF are running three ‘Train the Trainer’ Fieldcraft courses over the coming weeks (Details are on Bader - Search sharepoint for ‘Fieldcraft Train the Trainer’).
These people will then be able to train ECOs in their respective Wings/Regions.
All well and good, but I don’t think there is any renewed policy allowing training to take place…
[quote=“talon” post=24073][quote=“tango_lima” post=24071]
The album caption implies that the M-qual course is the (or at least ‘a’) required Q to be an ECO…
Time to send the ACOCTT signal?[/quote]
SA (M) 07 Cadet is the qualification required to plan and conduct and supervise cadet training when using blank ammunition and pyrotechnics. By supervise I mean the entire exercise, not individual cadets. The ECOs course we run features the use of pyrotechnics and blank ammunition, it is really about planning and conducting exercises.[/quote]
Well, rather…
The question is, is it now going to be the requirement to run exercises within the ACO, regardless of the (v. rare) use of blank or pyrotechnic?
Just found this:
Explains it quite easily.
There are two documents on sharepoint (posted last night) on HQ Air Cadets > ACO Document Library > Activities > Fieldcraft which answer all questions regarding the current status of the ban and the new interim policy. Sorry cant post a link!
and those documents have just been removed…I await the black cars outside!