I genuinely thought you were going to write one of the following
…whether a cadet will get a flying slot in two years to use a F6424 before it expires
…whether a Cadet sticks around long enough, which lasts longer the average Cadet career or a F6424
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That would involve the form owner knowing or caring what they are doing.
Personally I was never an advocate of the last Av Med form due to it allowing the OC to decide certain factors which, unless they are a Medical Practitioner, would never stand up in a court of law if anything were to happen. For me, I welcome the changes back to the use of a 6424 for conditions such as ADHD.
I always suggest to our visiting staff that they do an Av Med form completion/renewal when coming up to the 3 month redline for validity. Get every cadet in the Squadron to complete one and put it on file. That way if you need a 6424, you have the opportunity to get one done well in advance. The only time it needs to be changed, apart from after 3 months, is if the cadet’s circumstances change. 6424s are valid for 2 years again, unless something changes.
I would suggest not using the electronic version for printing as it doesn’t print well. Use the paper version. Also, as the is one of the main issues we have when cadets come to us, the staff are supposed to check the Av Med forms BEFORE attending the AEF and when I say before I don’t mean as they are getting on the minibus. I mean the parade night before so that any anomalies (pregnant male cadets or no parent signatures to name but a few) can be rectified. Otherwise escorting staff just end up spending an hour trying to get hold of parents or their OC to get new forms signed. Be forewarned, if the forms are incorrectly filled out or no 6424 is presented, the cadet in question will not fly. I know many of you probably do all of the above but many don’t and it has an impact on the already tight flying program and resources we have not to mention the disappointment to the cadet especially when the escorting staff say ’ the AEF have said you can’t fly’ and believe it or not I was stood behind a member of staff when they said that to a cadet when their forms were incomplete.
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When it comes to predicting what an individual might do in a given situation, I would suggest knowledge of that individual is far more important than professional medical qualifications. Everyone with ADHD, ASD, etc, is different.
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Absolutely, 100%. As I mentioned earlier, there is a huge difference of cadet being seen by a GP for 5-10 mins, & protracted exposure to behaviour when attending the sqn for different activities.
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Across the squadrons I’ve worked with, 2 individuals come to mind.
One had a diagnosis and used to spend their parade nights walking around in circles repeating the information they had been told verbatim.
The other was very sociable and likeable and got on well with every other cadet, but knew more than the entire knowledge base of Wikipedia too.
Out of those 2, you’d probably imagine it’d be the 2nd one I’d send flying without hesitation, but you’d be completely wrong.
The first one went on to be a SNCO and a really strong resource for the squadron - easily one of the best cadets I’ve worked with not just for knowledge, but for initiative too. The second one would freeze or panic if you asked them to do anything new, and withdraw into themselves. I wouldn’t trust them to pilot an aircraft safely.
But imagine which one the GP would sign off. It’s easy for me to see how Cadet 1 wouldn’t be signed off whereas Cadet 2 would talk their way into being signed off and then have a panic mid-flight.
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From our wg:
F6424 can only be signed before being issued to the Sqns by WEXO or equivalent/higher grade.
Ah, relevant personnel are all on leave until after our short notice gliding event…
Would love to know where that’s come from; ours don’t go anywhere near Wing!
ACTO 31 - they’re meant to be stamped by Wing first so that the rigmarole of chasing doctors fees is down to the doctor, not the parent chasing a refund from Wing
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Aha! Now that makes sense. For some reason, I was imaging it to be with validating the 6424 instead of the payment for the doctor.
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Surely aiming to reduce the administrative burden on the volunteers should be HQ’s raison d’être?
Welcome. Are you new to the organisation?
Whilst I do agree that as OCs, we may have a better idea of how a cadet will react than their GP who see them once in a blue moon or never in fact - I do see the benefit of healthcare professionals signing a form rather than the OC.
For me, it’s actually a case of most kids with ADHD/Autism etc actually have a healthcare professional that specialises in these, so they are more in the know to sign the form than the GP. The people that create these forms often forget that the GP often has to rely on other condition-expert healthcare professionals for care planning. So, if you want to be thorough and require a healthcare professional to sign the form, then go full hog and make sure it’s the appropriate one. You will also find these healthcare professionals will do it quicker and free of charge…
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Indeed, it should be their secondary care professional that should be consulted, a GP is a generalist not a specialist and you are asking a specialist question.
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I was asked a cadet with a listed medical condition ("neuro-diverse) about shooting, & how (if at all) the condition might affect them - I was able to to say that in other sqn activities, I hadn’t seen any issues. We had a little chat, they signed up for IWT on the Scorpion & passed the WHT. There were no issues shown during any of the LFMT exercises - they did rather well.
During our little chat, they volunteered that they had only seen their health specialist about every 18 months, & then only for a very short “progress” appointment.
As with a brief appointment with a GP, I do feel that a 10 min specialist appointment (every yr, 18 months or 2 yrs for the F6424, whatever) is very scant visibility compared to the hrs of exposure that staff have on a sqn supervising such cadets.
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Theres an ex shooting officer who was removed from post because they recieved an autism diagnosis, and the wing team thought they were all of a sudden a safety threat 
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The first time it all goes wrong and you’re stood in court and the prosecutor asks the questions?
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Did you ask medical advice before progressing Bloggs to being able to to undertake activity xyz?
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What are your medical qualifications to progress such a certification?
HQAC doing an invisible man imitation.
How many activities require a specific medical procedure such as F6424?
Response to the prosecutor:
Cadet Bloggs last saw his GP / medical specialist 12 months ago. The appointment lasted for less than 10 mins, & according to the report (that you have brought as an exhibit), Cadet Bloggs sat passively for the entire appointment; other than for one question (How do you feel in yourself - answer was fine), his mother / father / guardian answered all the questions about his status / behaviour / school progress, etc. As such, there was no in-depth assessment of Cadet Bloggs on their own & the report has little or no objective value. On the other hand, we have seen Cadet Bloggs for 90 evenings (2.5 hrs per evening, so 225 hrs in total) & 4 external visits / events (30 hrs in total); he has had a 90% attendance score. There have been no adverse behavioural / learning / engagement issues that the staff or SNCOs have seen or commented on. Indeed, we have had an email from his parents with a glowing assessment as to how much cadets has benefited him; moreover, he was promoted to cpl only 4 weeks ago based on an assessment of his all-round ability & motivation.
Jury would side with us I think.
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‘the already tight flying program’
what tight flying program - we haven’t seen any flying in over a year - how loose can it get !
I can only speak for our flying program but as it stands we have 1 gusting 2 operational aircraft which has to look after us at 2 UAS’. Agreed it’s not as tight as it is now however once we start cadet flying again the aircraft only stop for fuel and they are used to their maximum during the day. Any delays from our side cause a knock on effect moving the program off to the right. Don’t forget weather plays a factor in all this as well.
I completely understand that cadet flying is hard to come by but there is only so much we can do. We fly 5 days a week all day and we won’t fly all the 5500 cadets we look after.
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I don’t think anyone is blaming the AEFs: there just needs to be more of them, or more aircraft and / or pilots on each of them, etc. Basically more money, which isn’t going to happen — but we can dream.
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