Autistic discrimination / inclusivity . . . Who do i talk to?

Adult Staff Execs
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The term without context does carry certain presumed connotations, but that doesn’t exclude being open to a conversation over what those needs are. You can’t judge whether you can meet needs without knowing the specifics.

I don’t limit that to neurodiversity, SEND more generally, or health scenarios either - as soon as anything is made known to me, I like to have a conversation with parent and/or cadet. That’s even included birth nationality of adopted young people originally from politically and socially interesting countries, to ensure we didn’t accidentally blunder into some trauma or controversial topics.

For the ASD Vs ASC and Asperger’s debate, I hope we can all accept and agree that different people have different preferences, and although @Moon.lei you have stated your preference and understanding for yourself and your son, other people with diagnoses will think differently on it, therefore those of us engaging here will default to what we know from our experiences. Without direct contact and experience of you and your son, it is difficult for us to suddenly adapt our language to suit having just learned your views on these.

There may also be people that join the thread late and might miss your comments on ASC terms.

It’s a complex and evolving area, but thank you for the information you’ve provided, it’s not something I was aware of and will look out for it in future as an option or preferred usage when speaking with people.

But if we focus too much now on language where there is no intent of malice, we will neglect the more pertinent aspects of the conversation around your treatment.

I will agree though that our forms are far overdue a terminology update.

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The (RAFAC-form-3822H) health form calls autism learning difficulty. Yeah language needs working on :wink:

My comment on here was in referance to the fact that 5 lines on one form is not “suitable for a complex human with mental disability”. It wasnt how i describe my child at cadets. Hes a complex human who happens to have a disability, he is not disabled in hia daily life nor would it hinder his inclusion at cadets.

My comments here are not what caused the snap judgements but even if they DID assume mental disability means in caoable, that is ALSO discrimination.

The 5 lines on the medical form simply said “kid name is autistic and has OCD. He has ear defenders to use if it is too noisy. He may get overwhelmed in a stressful environment, if so a 2-minute sensory break would be helpful. He can stim/flap his hands if he is stresed or excited but this is not a problem. In extreme situations he may go mute or use signs”

As the meeting I explained that hes only been mute once this year, he is articulate and has clear communication. The oc said “nobody knows BSL” and said he wouldnt be able to understand or follow instructions. . . . It didnt mater how smart obedient or independent he is, (far above the average teen in all those areas!) They decided based on thecform alone he cannot be included.

I alsp provided an independence statement and definitions of terms and habits, like what is stimming is and why its good/doesnt need discipline.

This is a a misunderstanding because of terms. It was snap judgements and willful ignorance.

Also as a side note, my son is experianced marksman :wink: listening to me during a simple discussion about his abilities would have solved the problem. It is snap judgements based on a handful of labels that denied him asces. Not his capabilities :slight_smile:

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risk assessments are not written, or in place to avoid blame.

A RA is written to demonstrate that the risks associated with an activity or situation have been considered and appropriate control measures put in place to ensure these are ALARP - if they are ALARP but still considered “too high” then further control measures are required or the activity is not permitted.

the only “blame” that can be attributed to an RA is when conducting an activity and not following the approved and agreed control measures.

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It honestly sounds like a bit of a misunderstanding. From what you’ve said there should be no reason your son can’t attend cadets. It may mean a separate risk assessment for risk to life activities, but that’s fine!

I sincerely hope that after raising this higher up you can get a positive result. The offer of help from @InclusionadvisorSandNI is certainly something you should take up. Even if that isn’t where you are located, they’ll get you sorted.

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You mean like getting seriously injured using a ladder because you didn’t follow any of the control measures in your ladder RA :grimacing: :grimacing: :eyes: :eyes:

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Just a short point as this is already a long thread.

Safeguarding (via Cadet HQ) is not the best way to address this. There are a number of reasons, above all your son is not yet a Cadet and Safeguarding is there to cover members of the organisation.

The Diversity & Inclusion lead is more appropriate. Do get in touch with @InclusionadvisorSandNI and they can provide a local contact.

I hope this can be resolved - I’m sure it can be.

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Just thought I’d note on here, in case anyone is interested, that the charity Sense offer BSL lessons for £10/month.

Would love to see a tie-up between Sense and RAFAC to help aid the organisation’s accessibility.

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This one is even cheaper!

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Local charities might also do it for free.

We had a lady come in and observe for a night talk to the cadets and staff to work out what the most common signs would be. And put together an evening for us to learn the basics, and provided a folder of signs so we could continue to learn after the evening.

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As the parent of a neuro-diverse child, ex-civilian instructor and ex-regular RAF officer my honest advice is to give up and find something else. It pains me to say it but I’ve been where you are now.

It should not have to be that way but you are fighting an organisation that is stuck in the past (70s-90s military mentality). It talks a good game with regard to inclusivity etc but the truth is the staff are woefully under-trained at all levels. They do “boards” etc and spend a week at Cranwell before putting on a uniform but, in my experience, about 90% struggle to even deal with the needs of neuro-typical teenagers yet alone those with extra needs.

Don’t get me wrong, there are a handful of very good people who really know their stuff, but you’ll exhaust yourself trying to find them.

Sorry that you’ve had this experience, and I really hope your YP hasn’t suffered so far as a result. I can say with certainty from experience, and the experiences of others, that if you try to stick with it in its current state they will suffer in the future I’m afraid, and so will you.

All the best with whatever path you take though, I really feel for you.

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You are completely wrong. And frankly, that whole post is pretty insulting.

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"I’ve seen a message on the sidebar about things being really PowerPoint heavy. We want to try and move away from that. We want it to be experiential. We want to make sure that the cadets are doing as much self research as possible, we don’t want this to be school away from school.

We want to make sure that they are having fun as part of this process and taking ownership as part of their learning, making sure that it the packages that we create are as accessible as possible as well. And Paula mentioned there about having that SEND support and I have seen some comments that were brought to my attention on Cadet Central as well. About that support we are aware of that and which is why we’ve advertised. We want to make sure that we get the support there, but from a SEND perspective it can’t be gifted amateurs giving that support. It needs to be the specialist that give that support.

So our packages, we want them to be as interactive as possible. We want them to be aligned by accreditation where possible, but not everything is going to be accredited because it shouldn’t be. Some of that needs to be experiential and having fun elements of that. But we would clearly want it to be that if we can give the cadets something to take away, then why wouldn’t we? But we wanted to be as inclusive as possible as well."

The “advertised” is in reference to a new role of a qualified and experienced national SENDCO to provide centralised advice and guidance.

In the Townhall thread, I deleted some slides posted from the meeting last night because I didn’t think it was helpful without the context, but the quote above and image below is taken from that meeting - quite a lot of time was given to the topic of SEND at various moments and was a key part of the presentation before being discussed in the QnA.

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The organisation isn’t stuck in 70s-90s military mentality, and changes are happening to improve CFAV’s ability to deliver for as many needs as possible. Every volunteer I have had regular experience across my Wing and beyond would be willing to try to understand and adapt. Very few these days are “military way first” and those types usually get put in their place by others fairly quickly.

The vast majority of front line volunteers are “cadets first, welfare first” and when aware of what individual needs are required, will adapt as much feasible.

I’ve had ASD/ASC cadets of various levels of ability on multiple fieldcraft exercises and was a part of the team that helped a cadet with Global Development Delay achieve their Bronze leadership - to give just a couple of examples.

@JaguarJohn I’m curious how long ago you were a CI and how long for please. It’s odd you that you would create your account this morning and 8 minutes after, hit “reply” on what you’ve written there and come across as so unsupportive. Because I’m sorry to you that that is the experience you have had and do not wish to diminish or dismiss it in isolation, but certainly do not agree that it is representative of the whole organisation or its volunteers.

Blimey, just from the reaction on this thread you should see that attitudes aren’t what you describe and even that we volunteers recognise where the organisation is weak and will do what we can to make up for or change that. HQ is playing catch up, yes, but that doesn’t mean we’re all backward.

I’ll pick up on this the same as JB, because that’s bunkum. If it were true then why would we have around 45,000 cadets in the ATC?

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I’ll add to clarify that this is in reference to top level policy, strategy, and advice - an experienced and qualified professional as opposed to a volunteer taking on that responsibility (as opposed to suggesting that all direct contact will be a specialist) to educate and guide the front line volunteers.

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Here in Wales the term Special Educational Needs (SEN) disappeared at least 10 years ago, probably longer. This has been replaced with Additional Learning Needs (ALN). This was done to broaden the scope to all children with an additional learning needs as well as a disability or a learning need. Also there is the negative connotations around the word “special”.

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What someone who works in that field advised me is that “special” is often interpreted as “specialist needs” so people use it as a way to say “ can’t deal with this”

Complex means that most people can deal with it they just need to make a number of adjustments.

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This is where there are differences and nuances in language and it’s uses. I know someone that describes themselves as “working with special needs children” in a “special needs school”.

NSPCC:

We are using the term special educational needs and disabilities (SEND) to refer to children who have disabilities or additional needs. Your organisation may use other terms such as additional needs, additional support needs (ASN) or additional learning needs (ALN).

Snap Cymru:

The meaning of SEN and ALN are the same. It is likely children with SEN will have ALN. All children who have ALN will have an IDP.

NASUWT:

Huge workload pressures on teachers and other staff who support learners with SEND/ASL/ALN resulting in stress, anxiety and burnout

Feels more like a situation where one term isn’t a replacement for another but may be used or applied in different circumstances.

From Contact, regarding Wales:

A new system of support for children with additional learning needs (ALN), called the ALN framework, was introduced on 1 September 2021 to replace the existing special educational needs (SEN system).

Statements of SEN are part of the old system of support for children with ALN and are being phased out from now until Summer 2024.

And from the Welsh Government:

The ALN Act and wider ALN Transformation Programme will transform the separate systems for special educational needs (SEN) in schools or PRUs and learning difficulties and/or disabilities (LDD) in further education to create a unified system for supporting learners from 0 to 25 with ALN.

So (as I read it) it’s not a replacement of the term SEN even in Wales, just a different framework of provision.

A special educational need and an additional learning need are two descriptors of the same thing.

Some may feel a stigma is attached to the term “special”, but clearly not my friend who has been working with children for 15 years.

Again, why are we more concerned about the umbrella language than the actual provision for those with additional needs and inclusivity through actions?

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In wales the SENCo has been replace with the ALNCo as a role. The term SENCo is no longer used.

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Yes, but I’ll refer you back to the Snap Cymru explanation of the change.

It’s an expansion to a broader umbrella term within governmental and educational frameworks, not an indication that SEN or SEND are incorrect terms in some cases.

From the same source:

SNAP Cymru offers free and independent information, advice and support to help get the right education for children and young people with all kinds of special educational needs (SEN)/additional learning needs(ALN)and disabilities.

And I’m pretty sure the NSPCC and a teachers’ union would be pretty sensitive to what is current and acceptable.

Besides, is which term we use in this case (considering both are in use by different organisations, sometimes within the same organisation, and in different situations) a factor in whether or not we are providing appropriate care, adjustments, and environments for anyone with such a diagnosis?

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My advice is don’t accept this decision. Every cadet is different and adjustments can be made.

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All I know that in the school I am employed in and a governor of is that official guidance form the Welsh Government is to move away from SEN and use ALN in all terminology.