So I am considering going to Welbeck Defense Sixth-form and I’m aware that they have a CCF unit. I have just been promoted to Corporal at my squadron. I have two questions about this,

  1. If i get will will i be able to remain part of the ATC and continue to parade when I’m home?
  2. Is my rank transferable in the same way it would be if i was just moving to another ATC squadron?

Cpl McNulty


You are allowed to be in both. JSP814 refers. Someone may tell you otherwise; if so, ask them politely to go away and read it. Not sure what your ATC unit will think about your attendance though.

Rank - depends on the receiving unit. That’s actually true in the ATC, too. If it were me, I’d let you keep it; but Welbeck is a strange place with its own way of doing things so that’s not guaranteed.

(PS worth learning to spell Defence first…!)


As our resident expert, I had a young girl come down last night to a recruitment event, she did 2 years in the CCF (RAF)) before moving away.

I didn’t have a chance to get all the details of what she had done, but I assume I can just contact her old unit and have her transferred on Bader? How closely do the classifications match up between the 2 organisations?


Tmmoris is right, you can be in 2 cadet organisations at once but I have had people try to tell me otherwise. Refer them to JSP 814 and then they can re-educate themselves.

In terms of carrying over rank, unfortunately I have some bad news.

When I was considering going to wellbeck, that question was asked. The head of the CCF at the college said that you would have to prove your worth to welbeck before holding a rank in the CCF.

So unfortunately my understanding is that you wouldn’t be able to transfer your rank.

This was back in 2014/15 however so they might have relaxed there rules. But in my opinion from what I saw at the time I don’t think they would have.

All the best anyway mate!


It’s worth noting that Webeck CCF is not the same as other CCFs - remember that everyone there has passed OASC or equivalent to get there, so the baseline standard is much higher than in the ATC or other CCFs.


I’d say it was more akin to a US military school than a classic CCF


You say that but when I was CCF we used to trounce them every year in competitions.:smiley:

On the main question I went the other way. Was CCF for two years then went to ATC and did both for 3. The ATC unit let me keep my cpl on a probationary basis for 3 months to prove myself. Fortunately I kept it and then moved through the ranks independently in each (though normally only a couple of months each time of being different) all the way the CWO in both.

It’s really down to the OC of the units as to what happens with the ranks.


How do the classifications compare? I’ve never had much to do with the CCF. Are they a good enough equivalent that a cadet coming over with the CCF version of a leading badge for example would just move onto studying Silver?


Not sure what it’s like now. I had to do an extra senior exam before I could sit Staff part 1. The good old pre- laser days


The syllabuses are basically the same at Part 1 = First Class and Part 2 = Leading but start to diverge at senior as there is only a requirement for one subject not two. That said, PTS has been published for CCF and requires 3… but it’s not really fully formed yet.

A transfer on BADER should work as long as the cadet is actually on SMS - not all CCFs are using it yet.


Thanks for that, I knew you would know! if they aren’t using SMS will the cadet have a 3822 or equivalent with everything they have done recorded?


No - there is no longer a ‘CCF record of service book’ as the Army withdrew it. The RAF will have an ID card which has space for promotions etc. (but may not have been completed); a flying record card; and a shooting record card (again this may not have been completed). Syllabus passes may or may not be on BADER or WESTMINSTER.

Not very helpful, but in defence the system isn’t well set up for CCF yet and CCF staff are in some confusion about what goes where. Best thing is to ask the outgoing CCF for a written record of what they’ve done and create a 3822 retrospectively if you need it recorded.