Pretty much my attitude too. I’m not really too bothered what people do away from cadets. So long as it stays away from cadets. I think alcohol is more of a problem. Or at least it was, before the rules got tightened up!
Yes, if someone becomes dependent on drugs, then that may well lead to it effecting their time in cadets. But if they can keep it away. Then happy days really…
Until the day they are driving cadets, involved in an RTC, drug tested as standard and then fail the test.
That depends on where you live and quantities invovlved.
As I say, keep it away.
Your same argument exists for booze.
Canabis lasts far longer in the system unlike cocaine.
The biggest issue is not so much the individual, usage but the association with the criminals who supply the drugs. Locally we have some quite nasty Organised Crime Groups, all centred around drug supply.
This has resulted in a number of stabbings, a number of them cadet age. I have done a number of referrals for cadets being pressurised into county lines & wanting to avoid getting drawn in.
Alcohol is lawful (albeit a poison rather than a narcotic). The people selling are license, authorised & checked. The comparison with narcotics is an oranges & apples situation.
If you use drugs then you are associating with criminals, enabling criminals, enabling others to prey on the very same young people we deliver cadets to in order that they can develop themselves and make a positive difference in life & to society as a whole rather than be drawn into the world the criminals operate in.
You may disagree with the law. Feel drugs should more freely available. In which case write to your MP. Lobby for a change in the law if that is what you want.
But whilst drugs are illegal, the only way to obtain them is to associate with criminals (or their teenage couriers who will sell them on their behalf).
As such their use and/or sympathy for their use is not compatible with working with young people & with the highly dangerous activities that the military safe system of training allows us to deliver in a safe manner.
The use of drugs is unacceptable with volunteering for an organisation that is part of His Majesty’s armed forces & run by His Majesty’s Government & whilst it remains against the laws & ordinances of the realm, you cannot claim otherwise.
We still send quite a few up, but usually Ket or Amphet and usually because it’s been found as a white powder so the investigation has been run as if it’s Class A until the lab results come back and they’ve been too stupid to make any admissions so Cautions etc are out of play.
I haven’t authorised a charge for straight possession of Cannabis in at least 3 years probably longer.
Not so that you would fail a roadside test or be impaired. (Cannabis is absent from Saliva within 12 hours.)
Having a 1970’s attitude to drugs especially cannabis is not productive, especially for Cadets (and even younger staff) who are likely to be experimenting. For many It denies them of their support structure and their ability to come to the adult(s) in their life who they trust and feel they can confide in and for many it’s implementation might take away the only thing in this world keeping them on the straight and narrow.
We don’t even automatically sack Police Officers who fail a drugs test, their is a whole process of investigation and support meaning it’s a case by case basis as opposed to a blunt sledge hammer with many keeping their jobs. So please try to lower your high horse a peg or two.
Apologies if coming over a little zealous, I would just like the stabbings to stop.
The part of the drug debate that is often forgotten are the dealers & the county lines. Drug dealers are not Del Boys & they’re not grocers.
Despite my earlier statement I do have a Little sympathy for the young cadets who may get embroiled through peer pressure, so yes I was being a bit harsh. I have less sympathy for adults (I.e. 18+) while I would sign post them for help, they couldn’t be part of the cadet forces.
Different forces have different standards but in a number of the shire forces this would be gross misconduct sacking on grounds of discreditable conduct & it would be fast tracked. You fail a drugs test, it’s treated the same as drink driving.
Yes you go through the process, but there is no mitigation & in short you’re out.
Do you actually want the stabbins to stop though?
Because that can only mean that you’re in favour of legalising cannabis.
Frankly, we don’t see a lot of stabbings over cannabis these days. The real money’s in heroin and crack, and the supply lines are more difficult, you can’t grow cocaine or heroin in your loft…
No worries, I can be a bit opinionated at the best of times!
We certainly don’t get much Cannabis related County lines, it’s too bulky and too easily identified by smell to lug about on the railway or coaches.
Don’t get me wrong I’m still anti-cannabis, it is a gateway drug and I’ve dealt with enough longterm users to be convinced about the mental health damage it caused.
However I’m also a realist and I recognise that enforcement alone isn’t the solution and that young people will experiment.
Which coming back to topic is why I don’t agree with the organisations zero tolerance approach, it’s a sledgehammer and doesn’t recognise the subtlety’s of the real world.
That’s quite an inflammatory way of twisting words.
Legalising cannabis will not stop the stabbing because if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.
We pretty much all know that the only way to prevent criminal involvement in any drug is legalisation and licensing, as well as treating use and addiction as a health concern by providing adequate rehabilitation.
Doesn’t change my view that users of these drugs shouldn’t be responsible for children, and that we’re correct to dispense with the services of those that do - although yes, we should be signposting to support/rehab services.
Let’s take drugs that are currently legal and socially acceptable; you still wouldn’t trust someone you know who has a drink problem to drive the squadron mini-bus, or have overall responsibility for a range day, would you? If you know someone with a painkiller addiction, would you trust them to always have their mind on the wellbeing of the young people in their care?
Those are two separate issues as former is a social-judicial matter involving policing and the courts & the later is a legislative matter involving parliament.
The local situation around stabbings is due to a number of factors resulting in normalised behaviour amongst a group, lack of police enforcement/interest & different gangs having turf wars. Things aren’t challenged & a toxic culture develops. We’ve seen the same thing happen in RAFAC where bullying is not challenged & the culture that results from that.
OCGs don’t work like other business in that when a rival breaks a local agreement they don’t tend to get a lawyer to send a “cease & desist”.
There is also an issue with illegal cigarettes of tobacco being smuggled in. Where there is a quick buck to be made people will exploit it & criminals will act violently to maintain their profits with the same passion as any multi-national. Legalisation won’t remove the criminality or the culture no matter how much British-American tobacco may push for it.
No. But we wouldn’t throw them out either.
TBH, I doubt we’d immediately throw them out if they were caught drunk in duty.
I know for a fact we wouldn’t. We had a whole Wing Field Weekend almost ruined because a large number of staff were drinking far too much and far too late into the night on the Saturday. A large number of those were meant to be driving minibuses on the Sunday morning.
The sensible staff who could drive ended up having to do loads of shuttle runs instead…
Nothing came of that. Probably because a lot of the staff involved were Wing SLT.
I see that as 10x worse than someone who smokes a joint a few times a year, away from any cadet event.
Wholeheartedly agree. The trouble is the Armed Forces and associated groups have a culture that promotes heavy drinking - and it’s going to take some time to fix that.
Right now if we kicked out CFAVs that drank too much on events we’d probably only have half the number of CFAVs that we have now.
Someone who smokes a bit of weed in their spare time isn’t automatically a drug addict in the same way that someone who enjoys a couple of pints after work isn’t automatically a drunk and that attitude problem of “they so drugs therefore they are an addict” is part of the problem which leads to flawed policies like this one.
But they are choosing to break the law and therefore setting the wrong example for the young people under their responsibility.