It’s impossible to lay down a hard and fast rule, every case is different and the reasons why people deal drugs are vast. But at the bottom end of the operations, actual agency is rare, particularly among children.
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The whole system is the scourge. The whole drug dealing system. Largely because it is illegal. These are all the symptoms of the system. Other symptoms include young children being forced to run class A drugs coerced by threats or induced by false promises.
It’s young women being forced to ingest condoms full of pure drugs to smuggle them across borders.
It’s desperate addicts being forced to beg borrow and steal anything just to get a fix.
If you think that everyone involved in drugs is doing it willingly, because it’s fun. You’re incredibly naive.
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I just see the effects every day and a weak response by governments of all strips and the judiciary.
What do you suggest, legalisation, if so, just look at the state of California, a total disaster zone due to liberal policies of decriminalisation, Canada going down the same route.
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I suggest we give up on the idea that we can ever stop it using just punitive, criminal action. Ad long as vast amounts of money can be made from the trade in misery, it will continue.
The “War on Drugs” was lost a long time ago, and all we are doing is pretending we’re making a dent.
I don’t know what the answer is, but it’s not this exercise in futility we currently practise.
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I too thought that non habitual single use was a case by case basis.
Also, use at squadron or camp I agree is zero tolerance (or turning up high or possession). From here however we’re not arbiters of people’s lives and have no way of knowing outside of what we’re told. Hell I’m sure the organisation wouldn’t have any cadets left if they kicked people out for underage drinking (not a complete thread drift but hopefully you can see my logic?)
Devil’s argument - 18 year old cadet has a weekend in Amsterdam (or another such place where it’s legal). Does punishment still apply?
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I would make that argument for most crime types.
Interestingly we are seeing fentanyl again at the moment which is only ever going to end badly.
The biggest problem I have with our policy is that it acts like all offences are equal and it imposes the Mister Mackay approach to absolutely everything. Yes we need to safeguard Cadets but that moral duty should apply to ALL cadets, not just throwing them out.
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It’s a real possible situation. My Wing did used to go via Amsterdam to get the Nijmegen. Never stayed over night but what would happen if you did have some Cadets/Staff partaking in the Jazz Cabbage.
Short of a cadet bringing it to Squadron abd flashing it about (dealing?) how do CFAVs find out?
The school wouldn’t tell us and can’t imagine the Police would. If U18s the papers are unlikely (mot permitted?) to name them so i guess word of mouth from the other Cadets?
CFAV: anyone seen Cpl Zammo recently?
Cadets: oh he was busted for smoking weed at School sir.
Cadets: yeah he’s been suspended while the Police deal with the offence
I would argue that on Cadet duty the rules still apply irrespective of local law.
But off duty however it’s not just possible but likely that we have Cadets and CFAV out there doing exactly that on holidays etc.
Cadets talk, lots.
Or you could have Cadet Dylan gets caught with a bit of weed at home, Mum tells us being diligent and we then throw them out.
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That’s the problem with blanket ‘zero tolerance’ policies.
Like with bullying - find me a single wing that would actually immediately throw out a cadet if it sounds like there’s been a mild case of bullying over a couple of weeks. Would never happen, thus making a mockery of the whole thing.
It just removes the ability for anyone to have a sensible conversation about it. Good luck getting cadets to seek help with drug issues with that sort of nonsense still on the statute books.
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So you think having cadets who have used/ing drugs are a good thing, may just influence more junior ones to try them.
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Is not about cadets doing drugs being a good thing. It’s about us being open to support them and signpost them to help if they come to us for support. Zero tolerance means they can’t talk to us about it, or they’ll get kicked out.
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What if a cadet confessed to having slammed a crate of strongbow with a couple of mates at the weekend despite being 15? They getting thrown out as well?
On balance I think I’d rather a kid had a quick drag from a mate’s joint than got paralytically drunk. Pretty hard to get to the point of having your stomach pumped on weed.
But that doesn’t work because the Mail/Express etc have decided cannabis is abhorrent and have peddled this crap for decades.
If cigarettes or alcohol were discovered today, they’d be outright banned, immediately. It’s just timing and societal views that make them popular and acceptable.
The fundamental point though, you’re going to throw out a cadet who has had a joint? You’re going to potentially condemn them to the wrong path of life, snd slam in their face any number of doors that RAFAC opens. Doors which the sort of kids that grow up around drug use at home are unlikely to have organically. For having a spliff with a mate one Saturday night. Look at the backgrounds some of these kids come from, RAFAC can be a genuine lifesaver for them, not an ounce of exaggeration.
Your attitude staggers me I’m afraid. Bader’s phrase that rules are the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men is evidently lost here.
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I think you need to have a word with yourself and seriously consider your position within this or any other youth based organisation. It’s not fine. It’s a serious criminal offence that can lead to untold misery, sadness and loss. I’ve seen it professionally for decades and is something I would have absolute zero tolerance with.
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If they are doing it because of gang exploitation then I’d be looking to support them, with the appropriate agencies. If they are selling just because they can’t get a job then it’s bye bye. As for use, the odd one off spliff I’d be ignoring, as my (police inspector by day) OC did when I was a cadet and we had NCO team parties. Bring it on a cadet activity though and it’s a different matter.
Come to me with a bigger problem and asking for help then it would be dealt with on a case by case basis
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So you don’t believe it’s not a safeguarding issue towards other cadets?
We haven’t yet seen the long term effects on health both physically and psychologically.
The point that everyone is making is that their is a sliding scale and that maybe the person who needs safeguarding is the Cadet that has used drillings more than anyone else.
There is a huge difference between a Cadet running a County Line out of the NCO Office and a Cadet who has been caught by their Mum with a spliff. As it stands we treat both the same which is just ridiculous.
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It is. Maybe my wording wasnt doing me much justice- obviously its not okay to sell drugs or have any participation in the dealing of any illegal substances. But perhaps a less aggressive way of punishment should be used.
Please dont get me wrong because I obviously dont agree with the use of drugs and as @bob said,it has unfortunately cost the lives of people; and my condolences go to their families.
@XRSO, I understand my wording made a misunderstanding- hope i explained myself
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So a druggie AVM may well survive !
Probably the only way they do