[quote=“steve679” post=7956][quote=“zinggy” post=7930]
Sir or Ma’am is not a rank Sgt is
[/quote]
thank you for the clarification, i am aware of this, i am talking about how we refer to the Staff member in person, the appropriate compliment.
thus Officers (Off Cadets or otherwise) are referred to as Sir/Ma’am as appropriate and so questioned if a pre-ATF Sgt would still be referred to as a Sgt and how we would indicate this in writing.
NB the use of “Adult” prefixing rank, and the use of A/SNCO went out long ago[/quote]
When I say A/Sgt I mean Acting Sgt not Adult.
The point I am getting at is if they are being called Sgt they need to wear the tapes to go with it. Where else in the world would you call someone Sgt if they didnt wear the rank??
[quote=“the fixer” post=7957][quote=“steve679” post=7956][quote=“zinggy” post=7930]
Sir or Ma’am is not a rank Sgt is
[/quote]
thank you for the clarification, i am aware of this, i am talking about how we refer to the Staff member in person, the appropriate compliment.
thus Officers (Off Cadets or otherwise) are referred to as Sir/Ma’am as appropriate and so questioned if a pre-ATF Sgt would still be referred to as a Sgt and how we would indicate this in writing.
NB the use of “Adult” prefixing rank, and the use of A/SNCO went out long ago[/quote]
Only dress regs have changed. Dress regs don’t spell out how we refer to each other. They could decide that all WOs wore Cpl tapes if they really wanted to. They’d still be refered to as sir and when written WO(ATC).
Nothing has changed apart from the dress. Therefore, they are still called Sgt and written SGT(ATC).[/quote]
As I keep saying the dress shows what rank you are if you are a WO you wear the right rank if you wear Cpl tapes as far as the whole world knows that is what you are same with Sgt wear the tapes its easy you are what you look like a Sgt wear white tapes then we have issues are you an officer cadet are you a Sgt??? you wont know untill you are close enough to see a ATC on the tabs.
I wont even go into how much it will confuse non cadets on a RAF station…
Its a stupid system which no one really thought about.
[quote=“zinggy” post=7961]As I keep saying the dress shows what rank you are if you are a WO you wear the right rank if you wear Cpl tapes as far as the whole world knows that is what you are same with Sgt wear the tapes its easy you are what you look like a Sgt wear white tapes then we have issues are you an officer cadet are you a Sgt??? you wont know untill you are close enough to see a ATC on the tabs.
I wont even go into how much it will confuse non cadets on a RAF station…
Its a stupid system which no one really thought about.[/quote]
Officers are still officers when they aren’t wearing rank. They are still addressed and paid compliments as appropriate.
The same applies to SNCOs. You still call a Sergeant Sergeant when they aren’t in uniform.
I understand that they ARE in uniform, and would therefore be expected to wear the appropriate rank badge, but I disagree that the rank slide ‘is’ the rank.
[quote=“jacques” post=7962][quote=“zinggy” post=7961]As I keep saying the dress shows what rank you are if you are a WO you wear the right rank if you wear Cpl tapes as far as the whole world knows that is what you are same with Sgt wear the tapes its easy you are what you look like a Sgt wear white tapes then we have issues are you an officer cadet are you a Sgt??? you wont know untill you are close enough to see a ATC on the tabs.
I wont even go into how much it will confuse non cadets on a RAF station…
Its a stupid system which no one really thought about.[/quote]
Officers are still officers when they aren’t wearing rank. They are still addressed and paid compliments as appropriate.
The same applies to SNCOs. You still call a Sergeant Sergeant when they aren’t in uniform.
I understand that they ARE in uniform, and would therefore be expected to wear the appropriate rank badge, but I disagree that the rank slide ‘is’ the rank.[/quote]
I think the point is being missed here this is all well and good if you know who said person is but what if you dont? By this logic we might as well get rid of all rank slides and go by word of mouth.
You earn the rank and get the tapes for it if when I got promoted to Sgt in the RAF I was told I had to keep wearing Cpl tapes or put on white ones untill I had done my courses but dont worry we all know you are a Sgt I would of been pretty upset after putting all that hard work in. Same with the guys who go Sgt(ATC) some of them put a great deal of work in to make it there in some cases more than I did as they dont get paid for it.
Just as a side I thought that the Officer Cadet matter was Internal ATC use only.
The officer is commission/appointed as a Pilot Officer, Claims pay as a pilot officer, and for RAF purposes are a pilot officer. It is only the ATC who refers to them as Officer Cadet , hence why VR(T) “Officer cadets” are saluted where regulars and UAS aren’t. With the Sgt Rank, all SNCOs are members of a cadet corps not service personnel so the ATC can have whatever rank insignia they want - Smiley Face, picture of a foot, lions, tigers elephants etc.
Things will work out and everyone will get use to it and its the right mentality from those up above, although inverted stripes (like the only technical ranks of old with the point going upwards) might have worked better than the white patch.
Regarding how to addressing personnel - they are a sgt, they put Sgt on their pay claim, they get called a Sgt. With service instructors, if a cadet using the word 'Staff ’ on my Sqn in my hearing then they quickly get a verbal ear-bashing and definitely remember not to do it again. “Staff” can be the abbreivated form for addressing a Staff Sgt, same way “Flight” is a shortened form of FS. SI are addressed as Mr/Miss/Mrs (although thats our system)
Nice and simple although not as bad as referring to a female Officer or CI as "Ma’am " - no idea where this came from but is certainly one of those little irritations (like calling a rifle a gun - Grr)!
:? :? “Staff” is totally correct when addressing an instructor who isn’t an NCO. I asked what the history behind it was once, but nobody could give me a definite answer.
Whilst RAF Swinderby and at RAF Halton, all staff below the rank of CPL and civilian Staff where refered to as Staff by the Trainees. Staff as a form of address deemed suitable as a mark of respect that helped keep cocky recruits keep their feet on the ground
However most staff under Rank of Sgt where often greeted from afar by a booming voice of the Station Warrant Officer as “THAT MAN”.
