AP1358c Update to reflect CFC


When will they learn to under-promise and over-deliver?


I can’t say I entirely agree with RC(N)'s comment about us needing 1358c more than the RAF.

As cadets, we are almost always a phase 1 training establishment therefore we hold the uniform in a high regard - and need to know that it is correct and can be proven so with the right document.

As it is, we’ve had uniform changed (namely RAFAC slides & pins) with the corresponding guidance not being updated along with it.

We do have WO’s and SNCO’s at Wing and Region but not always at squadron level. If there is a disagreement on a parade night (which has happened many times before) then we need the referral document to be correct. We’re dealing with teenagers who hear whispers from other squadrons about uniform differences and need to deal with them on an adult level (i.e. you’re wrong / right because the AP states it rather than just “because I said so”).


RCN suggests that if in need of guidance on dress regs, WO & SNCO’s are the ‘go to’ people.

Well, that’s fine but where is THEIR guidance if the publication THEY should be relying on, isn’t there? This is why we have myriad different rumours\personal preference\suggestions as to how how\where\when\why uniform and accoutrements should be worn.

No publication = no standardisation = chaos (and discontent, evidently).

There’s also an allusion to there not being enough money slopping around in the system so that HQ numbers can match CFAV expectations. Easy. The money that was spent on a - virtually useless - glider recovery programme could have been better spent on staffing. Prioritise costs and create appropriate budgets to cover them.

They should also consider reducing the number of RC’s\ARC’s and the RHQ’s. How about only having two RC’s - North & South? The money saved on personnel and infrastructure could be better utilised elsewhere. There’s plenty of talk of closing Squadrons and merging them to save money. How about merging Regions?

I’m also aware that this debacle (amongst others) is not RCN’s personal fault. He’s the one though, being ‘put up against the wall’ by the failings of others. I can read frustration in nearly every line of his response.


Wow, we have had some new Rank Slides. Big Deal! Are we to sow them on to our underwear or wear them in any manner at all that we didn’t used to wear the old ones? No. Have the dress regulations changed for cadets - not as far as we know. So why worry. We have had guidance WRT the new rank slides, yes its not in the “book” but I am sure we can manage. There are much more important issues then whether we have a new book or not.


Ever felt sad? Tough - there are people out there that don’t have homes to go to at night
Ever felt happy? Tough - some people have just won the lottery

See how your argument falls down?

Just because there are other issues that are more important doesn’t mean this one isn’t and people aren’t passionate about it (otherwise the topic wouldn’t have +200 replies!)


How is it important? Are you currently wearing the rank slides on your beret or hat? OR DID THEY JUST GO WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN FOR THE LAST 100 YEARS


200+ replies that can be summed up in 4 lines

I want/Dont want a beard
I like Greatcoats (very small weird minority - generally spotted wearing a thunderbird cap)
HQAC are incompetent
Fighting with other forum members.


Unless I’ve got a document telling me so, how will I know? :wink:

Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?


j_m - it isn’t just about a publication not being made available and we can all use common sense when wearing uniform.

However, a publication is a reference document for the P-SAS amongst us, not only to ensure that everyone is correct in the wearing of uniform but also to stop some of the mouth-breathers that pervade their ranks from inventing their own weird and wonderful rules\putting their own warped interpretation on dress regs.

Y’know - the ones that want to wear QCS caps and crunchy boots; and scream at cadets like Sgt Tim Weston screamed at miscreants in Bad Lads Army.


That is because he thinks we are lesser people.


When you see everybody crying about AP1358C… but they forget that AP1919 - our underlying constitution and procedures underpinning the organisation - disappeared from Sharepoint with no sign of a replacement on the horizon, and no legacy of the “old version” in its place.

But dont worry about that. We’ve got new rank slides, great coats and beards to worry about!!!


Its live on Sharepoint https://sharepoint.bader.mod.uk/QM/_layouts/15/WopiFrame.aspx?sourcedoc=/QM/Controlled%20Documents/AP%201358C.pdf&action=default


Could you make it a pdf and upload it?


Basically from a quick glance:

No beards (other than religious or medical)
No new TRF
PCS Barrack shirts are now allowed
ATC has been changed to RAFAC for everybody.
We are now authorised for a Sash (Not RAF Blue) i didnt read any further into that
Mixed MTP/DPM with civvy clothing kind of now allowed for specific events.

Not a lot else to report other than some minor changes. I am sure someone will provide in depth analysis of it.

Im not in the least bit surprised at the little amount of change, i am not sure what some people were expecting.

GPJ officer backing is now also allowed, but private purchase only.


Sash for drum majors only (Dark Navy)

Band dress regs are now more specific and detailed.


Right well, does anyone know how I go about getting a medical for facial hair? Is it my GP or is there some ridiculous process I need to follow?


GP chit is all you need.

  1. Beards. All male personnel are to be clean-shaven when in uniform. Beards may only be permitted on religious grounds or when specially authorised by OC Wg / Wg Ex O / Sqn Ldr CCF on medical grounds under the provisions of AP 1269. The beard is to be a full one and it is to be kept short and neatly trimmed. For occupational or exercise reasons, where a hazard clearly exists, personnel authorised to wear beards on religious or medical grounds may be ordered to modify or remove facial hair to such an extent as to enable the correct wearing of safety equipment (flying equipment). However, during routine training or exercises the beard may remain unshaven. RAFAC personnel and applicants for uniformed appointments who wish to remain unshaven are to obtain a medical certificate to the effect that shaving will be injurious to health. The certificate is to be forwarded to HQAC through the Rgnl Comdt, OC Wg or Sqn Ldr CCF, who are to add their recommendations. Subject to such recommendations, authority will then be granted for applicants to remain unshaven for a maximum period of 2 years. This recommendation is then reviewed / renewed every 2 years.


Thank you, @Intruder.


It is also official that CCF RAFAC Officers are to wear the purple CCF formation flash


The CCF Formation Flash is purple with the CCF crest placed centrally. It is to be sown on at the diagonal with the Navy and Army crowns uppermost and the RAF crown below. It is to be worn by all RAFAC officers and WO/SNCOs assigned to CCF units.