Until the point where the resource is practically none existent…
We’ve seen flying and gliding cut by half. We’ve seen shooting be massively reduced. We’ve seen qualifications lost with no replacement in sight.
Yes, resources will inevitably change over time, and that’s understandable. Change management isn’t easy in any organisation.
But there comes a tipping point. Maybe it’s not this year. Maybe it’s not next year. But it will come.
After all, it’s just a change isn’t it?
Don’t use volunteer resource as a contributing factor to the organisation’s shortcomings.
Volunteers will always make do with what we have and will always put the effort in to deliver, but we are continually being let down by the CoC, whether that’s HQAC, the RAF or the MOD.
It’s particularly insulting when we are left to find our own solutions to the problems presented by the CoC only for something else to be rolled down and we have to start all over again (or not at all if we’re then out of options).
Ive been in the organisation since 2002. I have not live fired a weapon since the No.8 went out of service. All of our weapons were taken away, all of the local ranges stopped offering shooting. I’ve never even seen the L144(?) in person, never been offered training on it. I’ve had cadets join at 12 and leave at 20 without ever even seeing a rifle.
And I used to be a WI!
So yes, it may live on in some parts of the organisation, but as far as I am concerned it’s been functionally dead for years.
And this is exactly the postcode lottery that the organisation should be looking to overcome … I suppose they are really, stop all activities and then everyone gets the same level of service …
As a general observation, having dealt with a number of senior officers in RAFAC and the RAF, there is a tendency to see success at an individual small scale level and miss the massive reduction in capacity which has taken place if you look at the big picture.
Shooting - going great, cadets beat the other services at ISCRM
Gliding - go to any VGS and sit there for the day and it’s fantastic, running well, cadets having a great time
AEF - speak to any AEF pilot, lots of smiley cadets being flown every week
NASC - great camp, cadets achieve so much, industry links, etc.
But for every cadet taking part in those, there are dozens (hundreds) getting nowhere near those activities because there isn’t enough to go round
Is RAFAC too big? I’ve asked that before but didn’t get any engagement…
reminds me of how the Queen allegedly thought the whole country smelled of fresh paint - similarly, Air Officers only see the best of the cadet experience
Don’t need any, the current downward trend of staff will answer it for you.
My wing has had Zero full bore shooting since Nov 2023.
It has had zero L144 shooting since 2022…
Shooting is for all intents dead here.
As we are no longer supporting the L81 and the L144 shooting is now dead.
It was the sport aspect of target shooting that interested the cadets & now it will be seen as extension of fieldcraft due to the unhealthy fetishisation with blank firing & teaching children to murder.
So :-
No more Athelings
No more RAF Target Rifle club
No more RAF small arms
The target sports side of the RAF has now lost a massive feeder as had the commonwealth games & olympics.
Shooting will now belong to the rich, something cadets were great at adjusting the social imbalance.
Apologies for the mini-rant but I only initial joined as a CFAV for the target shooting & the ability to keep doing it. Despite an institutional discouragement I’ve taken many cadets down to Bisley & ISCRM & given them that interest that they wouldn’t get any other way.
Sad day for Cadets & RAF sports as a whole.
Looks like someone should have done a little (any?) research before telling us shooting wasn’t dead…
Or someone didn’t brief proper & pulled a sly one.
Head of RAF Sports needs to give AOC 22 Group an ear-bashing.
Cab
You’ll agree that shooting isn’t ’completely dead’?
Seems like the comminications from HQRAFAC isn’t just pants going downward, also upwards too since you weren’t aware that two major aspects of shooting were being lost.
The townhalls are fine, but it’s all just communicating what has already been decided, with no consultation through the RAFAC. Decisions are being made withno reference to those who actually deliver the activities. All CFAVs have an aspect of the RAFAC we are ‘passionate’ about, and we support other activities as part of being members, but when you remove the thing that is our ‘passion’ we will walk, meaning no support for the other aspects. For me, shooting is the ‘passion’. I’ll support anything, but I work with IT in my day job so I’m very unliklely to stay in the RAFAC when shooting is reduced to once every few months and the rest of the time I am being made to run cyber and flght sims (seems they are all we ahve left). ACF here I come.
Sorry, as an M Qual, and shooting officer, just hold on…
There is no fetishisation with blank, and definitely not teaching them to kill / murder.
We are giving those competant cadets the opportunity to understand military operations. We dont teach them to close and kill an enemy, its more defence and tactical withdrawal.
The L144 rollout had been woeful from the start, but it will be a shame to see the removal of target rifle from the syllabus, and opportunity for our cadets.
i believe the point @Chief_Tech was making is there are two streams of shooting, one is target/sport shooting, the other for the “tactical” reasons
without the target side all that is left is the application of “tactical shooting” which can be described in a military environment to “engage with the enemy” (ie kill)
Every aviator undertakes weapons training on the service rifle and it certainly doesn’t make them trained killers. To coin an old phrase, it’s just about surviving to operate.
I interviewed for Welbeck at 16 and one of the questions asked if I could pull the trigger at close range if required.
I remember questions like that, and about nuclear weapons, etc. It’s just to screen out peaceniks.
I accept the challenge & apologise for being over-emotive in language although there is a (tiny) minority where this culture is true.
I had a session on a DCCT once where we had CCF(RAF) cadets in the morning & ATC cadets in the afternoon.
The CCF cadets wanted to do different distance, different windages & were target focused, exactly what the DCCT was designed for in improving marksmanship, they were a dream to work with.
The ATC cadets just wanted to do scenarios & were very sloppy & got very little training or development benefit.
“Children with guns” can be a very emotive & political topic. Mothers Against Guns & the Gun Control network can be quite rabid in their ideology.
With out the target side it becomes harder to counterpoint (politically) the accusation of child soldiers particularly with section 5 weapons.
When I started in the ATC, wing shoots were lead into brass conversion courses. There was no coaching, no training or development & was or minimum benefit to the cadets particularly as it didn’t encourage them to continue the activity outside of cadets.
I pushed the target side, made sure cadets were coached & given feedback & the result was that cadets were insisting & asking for coaches & spotters.
This upset some of the old school & failed TA types who just wanted to blast guns US style.
There has been a moving away from the “bullet polisher” crowd because to do it well you have to have some intelligence & understanding of ballistics & minutes of arc.
Target shooting supports physics, it supports maths it supports STEM, it encourages attention to detail, internal concentration & personal self discipline.
It not combaty or War-ey so for those who like the uniform, & the military chic it takes alway from their Walter Mitty mind set.
There is a fetishisation of blank firing within the ATC which over shadows and undermines the leadership & training benefits that commanding a patrol brings.
But the activity of target shooting particularly at rimfire level is what underpins a lot of the discipline that is needed.
This is a very valid point.
