So, a CI attends every parade night
A CI is valuable to the sqn in terms of what they do on the parade night
A CI goes on courses on the weekend to up skill themselves and allows them to teach certain qualifications on squadron
A CI is interested in going into uniform
A CI is an adult, with adult responsibilities and family commitments.
Therefore, despite being the exact type of person that the organization would want to go into uniform, it appears that said CI will not be able to apply simply because they cannot attend the CIC course. Everything else that the organization would ever want they can do. Itâs just that one weekâŚ
It doesnât really help itself does it
I assume there are no alternatives in the pipeline like doing a few weekends over the course of a few months?
Itâs one of a handful of reasons I havenât gone into uniform. Happy to give up weekday evenings. And some weekends. But I only get the stat min of 20+8 days holiday, and taking 5 days for a course I donât think will really help me give back is not worth the time imo. Would rather use those days to go do ML training or similar instead, which I think would be more advantagous!
It really depends what you want to do in the organisation, there are very few things that CIs canât do and uniform CFAVs can.
I suppose the question to pose to them might be, why are they interested in going into uniform and would the benefits outweigh the cost of having to attend CIC?
(For the record, I agree that there should be more flexible options available.)
I imagine the main hurdle may be the permanent staff not having to give up all their weekends to run stuff, but it would certainly be worth exploring a 2-weekend solution, assuming the length of the course is correct for the needs.
Anything we can do to reduce hurdles to uniformed service (especially for long-serving CIs who are clearly committed and well-qualified) is a great thing.
Assurance for the training is important, but Iâd imagine thereâs a lot of stuff you could have people assessed on remotely, almost as a âmature student with PhD through experienceâ type route.
I havenât done CIC, but other than meeting new people, Iâd imagine the two biggest benefits are making sure drill and compliments / general bearing is good, and then safeguarding are the two main takeaways that may need to remain at all costs.
i know of a SNCO who feel the same about going for commission. They have been a CFAV ~20 years so they are familiar with the organisation, they are respected given what they have achieved with their qualifications and authorisations on Squadron and for a handful of Wing teams they support. due to the natural movement of people on their Squadron they are now the most experienced and knowledgeable CFAV there and would be the ideal Sqn CO - but the expectation that they complete a week at Cranwell to permit them to change their rank slide and headdress doesnât compute for them - being an officer will not change what they do in the organisation, change their commitment or interest in supporting their key interest topics, and so staying SNCO (and will likely get WO soon providing the system doesnât change) as it is a week they can put to better use hands on with the Cadets be that on making a camp happen as a D1 Driver or other such event
Are you referring to the unit cdrs course or the initial course?
If unit cdrs - then itâs part of the role & is a useful course. I appreciate it will vary per individual but at the end of the day itâs a good way to train & standardise.
If itâs CIC - a lot has changed in 20 years & if itâs the insistence âI did it 20 years ago whatâs it going to teach me that I donât already knowâ mentality then that person is possible a little stagnant & set in their ways & the course would probably be helpful in the adjustment to their new role.
So going into uniform is volunteering to undertake extra commitments & responsibilities. If you cannot or unwilling to volunteer that extra time then you may not be able to take on the extra responsibilities of the role.
The courses is also a gate keeper to reduce the Walter Mitty types & provide assurance to the RAF that there is some sort training & quality assurance.
ACF & SCC have similar courses.
PO applying for promotion to CPO have to do three weekends of training (pre training, assessment, promotion training) same again for WO1.
Itâs not unusual to have people taking on additional roles do additional training & selection.
A modular course e.g 2 weekends would be a much better option for many of our volunteers. Permanent staff are military so can be (in extremis) ordered to work those weekends. More likely just give them the TOIL to make it happen. It would probably only be 4-6 weekends a year.
Should long serving NCOs have to do the same CIC to become an officer? Probably not, RAF initial officer training is now modular to account for previous experience so we should do the same. They should do the senior course or unit commanders course (whatever it is known as these days). Getting the VA would soften the blow of having to take a week off work too
When I looked into it the ACF commissioning process was 2 weekends (start and end of course, with the 2nd one being the âpassing outâ) and local training, projects and mentoring in between.
That might have changed but with hindsight it looks better than our system.
Permanent staff are civil servants or FTRS so weekend work is probably not in their contracts & may incur overtime costs.
Also the working operations mean that outside office hours the support isnât there.
Army tried this - itâs easier for a lot of people to book a single week off than multiple sequential weekends.
I appreciate people have day jobs but whatâs the issue in booking annual leave for a one week course? Some employers will allow you to take military leave.
VA is already claimable as is mileage.
So new policy is that if you have done the new CIC the. You donât need to redo but if you havenât & your course predated a certain date then You donât have to.
It was mentioned on my course back in 2010 that a module course was looked at but it just didnât work & wasnât cost effective.
Even the Covid CIC course over teams has had a kinda meh response as a lot of the benefit (& fun) comes from networking with other volunteers outside of your wing & region (& now with teams itâs easier to keep in touch)
Although many do mock the ACF policies they personally have the upper hand on us when it comes to how they managed their staff. Their âdetachmentsâ which our are Squadrons feed into the Companies, which is our version of a Sector. When entering off âcivvyâ street you become an âunder officerâ or similar and have 18 months- 2 years of training working within numerous detachments within your Company and Battalion HQ (our version of Wing HQ) to get fully qualified on a range of courses. Most detachments are run by Lieutenants or Sgtâs however they are supported by Company staff and the detachments get together for Company competitions and training weekends/âdeployment campsâ. Or parade nights at a particular detachment.
A similar system could work very well within our organisation, especially for the new staff cadet system. Personally I would have liked to have seen the instructor cadet drop off at 18. The cadet has the option of leaving the corps going into CI or âunder SGTâ/âunder officerâ - 2 years worth of training and development and feeling valued at 20 to be able to pursue training within RAFAC. Also it would remove the mess of U18s cadets, 18-20 cadets, 18+ CFAV who on camps have to be divided amongst themselves
Most donât get any additional leave, so theyâre being asked to sacrifice Âź of their usual entitlement (assuming a 20+8 set-up) for a course that, from my experience, doesnât exactly offer a lot.
Now add in family commitments, holidays, other volunteering and just having the ability to sit down and relax for a week and you can see how sacrificing 5 days out of the 20 flexible days can be seen to be not worth the return on investment for busy, engaged people.
And of course, itâs the most engaged people who are likely to be the best fit for CFAVs in the first place, as theyâre proving they have the energy and commitment to want to make a positive contribution to their communities, as well as being able to bring in experiences from their other activities.
Yes, there needs to be some gatekeeping for Walter Mitty types, but the current system isnât the correct one for ensuring that. Some of the Waltiest people I know already hold senior positions within Wings.
Pretty much this. I can choose 20 days a year. I donât want 5 of them to be for a course that Iâm pretty sure will not make me a better youth leader. Not only that, but Iâd rather either use them for personal holiday, doing AT CPD or doing AT qualification training/assessment, that will enable me to deliver specific activities.
I have used AL for doing things like CWA training and assessments, and also week long camps.
Thatâs a fair comment but I would say that that none of the ATF course (except maybe the safeguarding ones) are designed with that intent.
You currently have
Combined initial course - for new to uniform, instruction drill & how the military side kinda works with a bit of leadership for new volunteers.
Unit cdrs course - for new Sqn cdrs some who have been in uniform 6 months, others 12 years focusing on running a unit & what dealing with & what to consider.
Staff officers course ? - mean to be the more strategic & professionalising the role of WSOs
I think the courses are more geared to understanding & deliver those extra responsibilities people have volunteered for not the day to day volunteering at Sqn. Itâs about enabling the other volunteers & the ethos of the organisation.
Those who have a variety of skills, experience in volunteer management & are established confident leaders probably wouldnât so the question I would pose is âdid your fellow candidates on the courses enjoy it & find it beneficialâ
Both my IOC & SqCC I found generally generic but I enjoyed both, took some minor bits of learning which have helped me both at Sqn & outside.
However there were others on my courses who really benefited & learnt a massive amount & found the courses really valuable not just in knowledge & experience but in growing their confidence & feeling that the could do the uniformed role there were here for.
I remember one person on my Sqn cdrs course at the start was really unsure that it was right for her having been dropped into an OC & even if she should remain in uniform but by the end of the week she had grown so much in confidence she understood the role & was able to go back to her unit & make it quite successful.
Ironically there was another on the course who was very dismissive treating it as a tick box & had made his mind up that he wouldnât learn anything when he was one of the worse candidates on the course & really could have done with winding in his ego a bit & listen to what information was being relayed.
I do just question if some of this really requires 5 days off work. Certainly the majority of the CIC I think should/could be done more locally and/or at weekends and/or more online elements. Same with UCC. SOC does make more sense being a centralised course.
The vast majority of the content could be delivered via a Bader Learn style, through videos and quizzes etc. They at the RAFAC Leadership Command school have done enough CIC/OICâs to be able to consolidate that content.
I am sure they are still do the low ropes course, although it was a fun afternoon when I did it. It didnât add massive value to my CFAV experience or week away. It was good to meet other people from around the corps and it was nice to visit CHOM and get a certificate etc but realistically nothing that I couldnât achieve on a camp. I learnt more about myself and others from attending a camp as an officer and getting hands on involved in activities and planning.
That could then be followed up more locally, I would suggest Regionally rather Wing level as there probably isnât the numbers in most Wings to justify running a course and it could be a âconsolidation dayâ. MOI style presentation with potentially some drill in there too.
Agree on all points. Online learning, combined with local Sqn/Wing training. Culminate in a shorter 2/3 in person regional course. Said course can then be run over a weekend and weekdays and allow people to choose.
Having done both I would say that they do & even then the courses could do with being longer.
Multiple weekends starts to really mess up home life - itâs bad enough with the multiple weekends for weapon courses.
Regarding local courses you couldnât rely on volunteers teaching the volunteers - the standard & consistency isnât there & these shouldnt be delivered at Sqn or wing level as the capacity isnât there.
You could as CTT/TEST to perhaps deliver in the summer as a region thing but accommodation may be tricky.
I think the ATF did try do weekend courses ages ago but there wasnât the uptake.
Thereâs no real difference between volunteering to do a week summer camp and to doing a week training course.
