OK with the number of changes proposed for 2017 the ATC should suspended with immediate effect until it’s all sorted out and we can start again with a new organisation.
Trying to implement all of the changes suggested, proposed will create havoc, while HQAC are issuing amendment after amendment and we are trying to make the proverbial silk purse.
You are an idiot.
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Something needs to happen. Muddling through will create more problems.
No, stopping will create the ultimate problem. The ATC will fold and staff will find new lives, then when it re-establishes itself in whatever form no one will join it.
Hugely amusing as a 1 second idea, utter crap in reality.
The ACO relies in people doing it mainly through habit. Take that away and it’s dead. Forever.
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The only 2 things constant about life are death and change. Either roll with the punches or get off the train.
Changes have always happened. The ATC couldn’t have lasted the 70-odd years if it hadn’t changed once or twice.
Anyway, think positively, it doesn’t look like the RAF Reg’s use of L/Cpl has caught on in the ATC yet, so that’s something.
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You cannot be serious to paraphrase John McEntoe, total nonsense for reason angus states, habituation, lose the habit and it’s endex, which I think you know. For all the world it looks like the off the wall sort of thing someone who’s bored at a brainstorming and then sit back with a coffee and a smirk and while the others get airiated.
We have 2½ - 3 weeks off at Christmas and it is a struggle for the first two nights or so, especially if it’s cold, snowy, icy and even going on holiday for 2-3 weeks and it takes a couple of nights to get back into the swing. I can understand why so many who go NEP bin it, 3+ months off and you’d need to have / find a bloody good reason to come back. Which is why I went from Officer to CI without a break.
Mind you seeing the sort of things suggested as changes next year, it’s gonna be a roller coaster. Thankfully I’m not the OC anymore!!! 
It will be interesting to see which version we’re on by this time next year.
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We’ve been through bigger changes without stopping!
Do you recall the LASER review?
- Where a whole host of WO’s were knocked back to Sgts? Everybody said “oh - they will leave and the Corps will fold”. They didn’t.
- Where they introduced a string of hoops for 18 year olds to jump through? Everybody said “oh they will leave and the Corps will fold”. They didn’t.
- Where a load of CWO’s were told they couldn’t continue until they were 22 anymore? Everybody said “Oh, they will leave and the Corps will fold”. They didn’t.
Do you remember that time somebody went “Electronic Ways of Working”? Lets shoehorn that on the volunteers… and suddenly we had to record stuff on dodgy computer systems instead of flicking through filling cabinets from the 1950s and people went “where will we find the time!!!”. And somehow, we just adapted, and overcame.
Do you remember that time inbetween fieldcraft just “happening” and ACP16 coming in? When people went “if this carries on, the cadets will leave”. And some did. But many just stayed and did something else instead!
Or that time when the H&S Nazi’s descended upon the ACO and the rumour went around that we couldn’t do aeromodelling anymore because we weren’t allowed to store modelling glue and paints together in a box in the training cupboard full of flamable paper and an OHP from the 1940s in case everything caught fire? And people said “THIS IS THE END OF AEROMODELLING”??? So people just went home and played minecraft or Dungeon’s and Dragon’s at their mates house instead.
Do you remember that time that 2FTS said “PAUSE” to gliding about 30 months ago. And we said “but the cadets will leave if this drags on much longer”. And some did. But many stayed. And those that have stayed miss it. But those that have joined simply don’t know any different. Don’t get me wrong - I am truly devastated that cadets are missing a really valuable opportunity. I’m miffed that the use of Flight Sims is becoming the norm - replacing that oh so exciting occasional GIC or GS flight. BUT the new cadets, the ones that join today, won’t know any different - they will accept it as “the norm”. Us going on about the good old days isn’t going to bring them back - it’ll just demotivate and demoralise us. And that’s not going to help us deliver high quality, fun, interesting, exciting and vibrant training to the cadets (and staff!).
I’m not saying it’s all been smooth sailing. I’m not saying I’ve not wanted to throw the towel in. But what I have done is seen the Corps evolve and change over time. Change happens. Sometimes those changes are forced upon us. Sometimes we force them upon others. And everybody deals with it slightly differently.
One of the things which DOES frustrate me as that there is a cycle of problems from all of the above which relates to communication, undervaluing the volunteer, and transition management. People don’t learn from previous mistakes. Having said that, with the relentless churn of staff at HQAC, plus the now routine understaffing on high due to budget constraints, I’m not surprised by the lack of support for the volunteers. The most depressing thing, is that some of the volunteers within the focus groups and panels HAVE been, lived and worked through the changes of the last 10-15 years and now, in their elevated positions, don’t recognise the problems because they aren’t impacting on them anymore…
My plans for 2017 are to muddle on through for the sake of the cadets, offering them some really good opportunities over and above what other organisations offer, at a fraction of the cost, and in spite of the issues HQAC, Region & Wing throw my way. Is a “Pre-DofE” badge going to affect them that badly? Nope. Is the loss of the VR(T) for some cornflake box new Monarch’s Commission going to impact on what and how I deliver training to the cadets? Unlikely in massive quantities? Is a new badging policy worth getting worked up about? Not really… I’m not that fussed about the First Aid badge moving to the back of the brassard from the front, nor whether we’ll look like the scouts! Today isn’t the day to chuck my teddies out of the pram.
However, if you’re that worried, why don’t you stop for 2017. Have a breather and relax. Let some other people sort it out and pop down the Winchester for a pint and come back when it’s all blown over?
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why were they knocked down to Sgt??
Bacause they hadn’t been in post for more than four years at the time IIRC.
thats not right…
I was one of the first Sgt’s in our region when I did my course it was a mix of WO’s and Sgt’s.
and some of them had just been appointed within a few months ahead of the change.
Yeah it was mooted but never put into place in the end, although some people had paperwork sat on until after the date and you could voluntarily drop down if you wanted.
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now that rings a bell…
That’s the one.
Yep the drop to Sgt was completely voluntary. We had a WO who had only just been appointed and laughed when someone suggested he become a Sgt. I wasn’t going to force it as I didn’t see the rationale behind the suggestion.
The LASER review caused more problems than it ever solved. IIRC the rank of Cdt FS was faffed with, with restrictions and controls put on Sqn Cdrs promoting to FS. It introduced the notion of cadets only staying in over 18 if they were of worth to the Corps and had to be interviewed by a WSO, which was a farce as our WSOs at the time said we don’t know them as well as you do and you would have promoted them in the old days, so it was a box ticking exercise. The Adult SNCO was meant to come with a progressive training system and a WO course. Still waiting and more so for Adult SNCOs to be more broadly accepted for their personal and professional skills. The only ‘progressive’ thing is the list of box ticks for promotion that are supposed to give the illusion of progression, which as I understand it has leached its way into the Officer cadre,
It’s also worth remembering the LASER review was primarily about an Adult SNCO structure and the changes to cadet service in terms of age etc was a last minute knee jerk reaction to suddenly realising that we had unchecked 18 year olds with unrestricted access to minors, so had to do something and rather than just adding the CRB requirement which was far too simple and causing least aggro, the numpties involved did more damage to the Corps IMO than good.
TBH the LASER review promised lots and delivered sod all of worth to the organisation and if anything set the stall by which other things have been done since, ie big fanfare of change and when it happens, nothing in place, lots of extra work for the volunteers, period of perpetual fiddling and playing catch up.
I don’t recall people saying they were going to leave because of the things listed above.
Things changing may have not made people leave but the changes have resulted in many people not doing things anymore and some key staff have left or not bothered requalling and that has had a dramatic effect. While cadets may not have left, but staff deciding not to requal or even qualify to do something, has been behind in the reduction in opportunities.
The electronic way of working was fanfared as reducing the amount of admin for sqn staff. If anyone who has been around as staff (in running the sqn positions) pre this notion and has seen any less admin, I’d like to know where. I may be old fashioned but when someone says something will reduce, I expect the outcome to be less of it. The only thing I don’t see now are the quarterly returns, which with a bit of forethought could be turned round in about 20 minutes, 30 at most. I never understood how people thought they spend days each quarter, if they were they were on the daft list. If anything admin has increased through additional processes, because it can be done electronically. But I think HQACs thinking was do it electronically and somehow it becomes less.
The new commission won’t change what people do or how they do it, but it may make them feel differently about themselves in the role and that is unquanitifiable. Mental perception of worth (for want of a word) affects people differently, some may just get on with it and accept their lot and some may see it as a sleight on them and either leave or resign. Through various reorganisations etc at work people have seen their jobs downgraded with more to do and left. I personally don’t see it altering what I do or the volume of what I do as Cadet Commissioned Officer. I do feel however changes should bring a benefit to you and thus far this has been a fail wrt changes in the ATC.
I agree with Teflon whole heatedly. Teflon, let’s you and me lead the stop. From today, don’t attend squadron or activities and I won’t either. We can lead the stop from the ground up.
juliet_mike continues as normal
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Yes it was optional. Those with less than 8 years had the choice.
What are all these Earth shattering changes you’re moaning about? (I’m only aware of the new badges.)
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You brought up a number of changes and I agree laser was a disaster for staffing in the ATC but the organisation has adapted, developed and survived. I go back further to before the introduction of females to the corps in my opinion that turned out on the hole to be a good change and now no one would consider going back. As I remember there were many influential members of staff prior to its introduction that were going to walk away and if you listened to them the corps would collapse, they also tried to delay it as long as they could as you can see it didn’t work.
As for those VRT officers who only think of their commissions I think they are in it for the wrong reasons. Shouldn’t it be about training another generation of teenagers in aviation related subjects and helping the cadets become better citizens not pandering to a few members of staff’s egos?
Change in this area has been inevitable for a long time and the shortage of staff meaning NCO’s running more squadrons just as the Army and Sea cadets have done for years means the arguments for VRTs running squadrons has been diluted. So with this change there will be a larger pool of uniformed staff they can call on to run these units. As these will all be cadet adult staff ranks they should be considered equally capable if in the opinion of wing they are capable and asked of taking the roll on.
Possibly rather than moaning about loss of the VRT some of the officers who would not take over squadrons when asked so they didn’t have to take on responsibility. Or those who maundered themselves into wing positions for the same reason when there were sqns out there with no commissioned staff should think about their part in it.
As for the changes to staff cadets some are capable with guidance of being adult staff to a level at 18 (not OICs) from my experience there are some that will never be capable. The danger is in sqns with no or few staff that they will be put in charge of things they are not ready for and get burned out before they learn how to cope. I am sure this will happen but this will be down to wing staff to sort out and not just slope shoulders as has happened in the past.
I for one am hopeful, looking at the staffing in my area I think a radical solution is needed or sqns with teenagers wanting to be cadets will close for lack of staff and this may be part of it. The other part must be to get a better distribution of time served uniform staff to support sqns that have few or no uniformed staff the only place this can come from is sqns with large staffs and whqs for many sqns it’s about survival.
I remember; girls starting in the Corps, the removal of T&L for WOs after 8 years, LASER, people needing to have NGB qualifications, almost a course to pass wind and daft changes to classifications and each time there has been a two options, say stuff it or huge sigh of resignation and carry on. The majority do the latter, purely on the basis sqns would have folded.
I don’t think people will only think of their commission’s status, it will be culmination of several things and the CFC will be for some the straw breaking the camel’s back. But the majority will just carry on putting up with things as there is no one else to do it. At each of the above changes people have left out of frustration and left a hole on squadrons that are difficult to fill. Whether some may regard this as selfish and not seeing the ‘bigger picture’, is small-minded and ignores the fact that adults have to have a positive experience, that is much longer than that of any cadet. This is something Wing need to understand trying to push people around to sqns to gap fill. I’ve seen too many people get their arms twisted to go to other sqns to gap fill, it just hasn’t worked and where they’ve not been able to RTU, have left.
Where does it say in the blurb for commissioned officers that they have to become sqn cdrs? You could equally berate those who don’t do a stint on Wing Staff. Wing Staff seems to be largely made up of people who can’t hack sqn life and disappear into jobs that are made up or just as box tick positions. Mind you there are some sad souls who see being as something special and (probably as their jobs and personal life is lacking something) want to make the ATC into a career. The only Wing Staff you really need are sports officers and maybe someone to over see training, other than that they should be on sqns doing something real. I couldn’t think of anything more soul destroying than going onto Wing Staff.
What it boils down to is your requirements for your experience.
I know several people over the years who have commissioned with the intention to become sqn cdrs in due course, that when it came up it didn’t fit around their real lives. As you allude all of us being “ATC” staff SNCOs could now legitimately fill OC positions and we lose the expectation that an officer does it. It’s worked in the ACF for years and little or no detriment to the organisation, so why it can’t work in the ATC is a mystery. I imagine it’s more to do with the blinkered minds we have at the top. I imagine some Wing Staff would relish playing do you know who I am with a SNCO who may feel more obliged/pressured to accede to their demands, than a crusty old sod(ess). I think this is why they like ‘baby officers’ in command posts as they’ll remember them as being senior staff when they were cadets and so in awe of them. I’m not in awe of anyone I come across anymore. Uniforms and braid do not impress me.