Air Cadet Staff Federation

I wasn’t planning on closing it, just perhaps dragging it back around to the topic. It’s kind of like turning a supertanker sometime, but it appears to be working.

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I have looked at this advice and it is very interesting as I feel HQAC are putting in place some of the things that the author states should mean we are not volunteers!
I wonder if HQAC have seen this article?

They might have to under the Human Rights Act!

from the link given;

https://www.schofieldsweeney.co.uk/blog/managing-volunteers-the-legal-implications/

"Does para one in effect refer to the requirement for a given number of hours per month that must be undertaken as an obligation rather than an expectation.

The second paragraph is the most interesting as it states any payments are to strictly cover expenses, therefore is the ‘re-numeration’ from the ACO ‘expenses’ therefore plus the new contract uniformed CFAVs seen as employee’s not volunteers. it is in my opinion, payment as it covers more than out of pocket expenses. If uniformed CFAVs are paid 28 days a year for duty which in particular some may have been granted as paid time off from employment how can this be ‘out of pocket’ expenses.

Para three is also interesting in that if a uniformed CFAV is ‘ordered’ to attend a function be it parade or whatever and they say I’m not going they are responding to expectations rather than obligations of an employee, not a lot the ACO can do about it,as they are not employee’s unless the ACO wishes to enter into a contract rather than a voluntary agreement.

This is why a an organisation that can represent CFAVs is need to deal with issues such as this.

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Totally agree with you, bob!!

The other point is that the ‘renumeration’ is paid as per rank unlike expenses which are usually standard across all ‘volunteers’ as per what you have paid out is reimbursed to the individual.

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I would like to add though…
On camps mess bills for accommodation are dependent on rank too…

If remuneration was to cover expenses why on earth are there different rates? Well other than to compensate you for the BS you get as a Sqn Cdr.
HQAC should come clean that this is a contract and they will use all or various parts to get rid of the “unclean”.

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Exactly, the position is not defensible, as by paying different rates they have left themselves wide open to challenge. If two people perform the same duty why the different rates if they are expenses and not renumeration (payment)?

If your a Sqadron Commander, why are your expenses higher than any other uniformed CFAV?

This is the sort of thing a staff federation should be addressing.

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Again… but I know it doesn’t fit with your conspiracies…

If you are a Fg Off staying in accommodation on a station you will be charged LESS for the same room as a Flt Lt.

Accommodation charges on station are billed at a rate dependant on your rank.

And that would be a legitimate expense, potentially tax deductable not a payment over and above that payment for mess fees.

As someone who cliams expenses against tax, some are acceptable to HMRC and accomodation is one of them same as millage allowance and CPD according to my accountant.

The thing is why not just reimburse for what you pay out OR have a flat daily rate for all and make messing for CFAV FOC.

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But we don’t get rank dependent expenses, we get a flat rate, depending on rank, not taking any account of any expenses… a payment for performing Air Cadet approved duties! That is not out of pocket expenses!

If they are getting rid of the Voluntary Allowance and going to an expenses based system that’s fine. But when I am leading on the hill I will charge HQAC the going rate for a Qualified Mountain Leader, £100 a day when I last looked! That would be my out of pocket expenses, as if I was not leading cadets and leading others, that’s what I would get paid!!

Yeah, because different ranks are paid differently!

If nothing else, the strongest evidence that what we get is “pay” is that HQAC used to call it “pay”, and then didn’t actually change anything other than the name.

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I don’t disagree with pay v remuneration but the question was why is remuneration paid at different rates depending on rank if it only is to cover expenses.

  1. answer is because the raf charge us different rates for accommodation.

I think over the next few years you will find out the remuneration will go or will go to a flat rate across all the CFAVs

I know, but I was pointing out the cause-vs-effect…

Accommodation charges differ because pay differs, not vice-versa.

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That argument only works though when the renumeration relates to a duty where you need accommodation. Most events I get paid for don’t require booking into the mess overnight, and rarely involve eating there.

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So what about Adventure Training? Very rare to be in a mess in that activity!

If remuneration is too expensive and is going, tell us! Don’t prevaricate, don’t hide it, just tell us! People can then make an informed decision.

Before everyone starts, any removal of remuneration would not reduce my commitment to my Squadron or the Corps. Money is not the reason I do it!!

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It would reduce how much I can do simply because it’s how I justify it to the wife. Without the extra income I can promise you I wouldn’t be able to do as much as I do without getting a divorce.

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And I think that’s going to be the same for a lot of CFAV!

If it was about the money, I’d join the regular or reserves, who get paid a lot more than CFAV…
However, the money helps recover ~60% of my loss of earnings when I go away for each activity, compensating for the loss of my annual leave and some unpaid leave from my actual day job.