Air Cadet Gliding Petitions

Everyone Flying
141

OK I’ll take the bait…

I’m not sure “entitlement” is the right word; I would express it as more disposing of the very experienced VGS cadre who have given extensive support to cadet flying over the years - I can’t think of another activity within the ACO that requires more or less continuous weekend attendance.

For one sqn, good for you, but looking at the big picture - over the entire ACO, it has been accepted that retention (& recruitment) is down. As we all know, the different options that can be offered by sqns depends on location, staff qualifications & availability, etc, etc. Yes, we have to make the most of different activities, but flying is a CORE activity & must remain so.

As Teflon indicated, accountability is paramount; also, if the “business 'plan” failed here, what else needs to be looked at…?

You last paragraph would be better written:

“I am far more concerned with the lack of communication, seeming lack of contingency planning, poor use of resources & inability to coordinate with the BGA.”:

Very interesting Press Release from the The Honourable Company of Air Pilots. One extract:

We call for a new approach, and offer to co-ordinate a new form of funding initiative between Central Government, the RAF and the UK aviation industry that could procure an additional, modern training fleet for the UK Air Cadet flight-training organization to make its benefits widely available across the country.

From a quote elsewhere:

It’s so frustrating that the best single gliding organisation in the world has been totally decimated and is no where near out of the woods yet. All that time from everyone, effort, perseverance. Gone.

What a waste.

But the most important aspect is the door it opened for me to get my foot into a Commercial aviation career. Willing to bet most reading this know of any number of cadets who have gone from nowhere through a VGS into Mil or Civ careers that would otherwise be unavailable.

Yep, I did that route - ACO Gliding Scholarship, ACO Flying Scholarship (the 30 hrs deal), RAF pilot, now commercial pilot. That’s one reason why I feel so passionate about cadet flying & that the detailed background for this “gliding pause” has to be brought to light, & if heads have to roll, so be it.

EDIT - money matters…

Contracts - £2.5m for 25 winches (I assume for subsequent maintenance, awarded in the middle of the “pause” - great planning. Via Hansard:

Glider Maintenance at RAF Syerston

£9,400,034

3 February 2008 - 31 March 2015

That’s a bucket load of money for “simple” aircraft over 7 yrs - & it obviously didn’t work properly…

142

It’s a side effect of having smoke blown up their bums for so long. Starts to cloud their vision.

I love the VGSs don’t get me wrong, but I do wonder why there are so many complaints, incidents, accidents (no airborne ones) solely related to VGS staff.

143

Try being Squadron Commander!

No-individual or individual group is bigger than the Organisation as a whole and if you read the Social Media posts from the VGS staff there is a very large amount of chip on the shoulder “only we get cadets flying solo therefore we are more important than anyone else and I can’t believe they don’t need us anymore the ACO is finished”.

Last time I checked AEF was still running, Flying has never stopped and to paint the loss of the Vigilants as the end of Flying in the ACO is dishonest.

I will repeat once again the simple fact, there is NO MONEY to get the Vigilants back operational again. All that these petitions and the whinging to MPs will achieve is more people being fobbed off with the same explanation that was given in the Telegraph Article further up the page, with the added side effect of some negative press for the Organisation which WILL directly affect recruitment of new cadets.

There seems to be a misconception that “heads will roll” nothing of the sort is going to happen, just as there will be no big public enquiry and only the deluded would think otherwise.

144

That sound interesting but something that would worry me would be the potential of cadet “selection”

The RAF do it as an open to all policy but would the aviation industry do it to the same effect or would they be looking for “results” for example take 10’cadets who have passed a certain grading and give them a FS at the end of it. Great for the intellectual cadets but what about the younger and the ones that struggle with exams would they have the same opportunity for AEF/ GIC if the private sector was involved??

I know it’s all talk but something that would need to be thought about before agreeing to Anything…

145

A return in some ways to the system that we had when I got a FS, involving a trip to OASC at RAF Biggin Hill to prove my worth and a report to the RAF after a final flying test at the end of the scholarship.

146

Poor delegation skills! :sunglasses:

AEF flying is exactly that - air experience rather than the opportunity to be trained to fly & go solo. For those under the 5AEF umbrella, it has been a rather sparse yr = no flying due the ATC cover debacle at Wittering.

When you have parents ask “what about the idiots who have caused this mess?” (referring to the gliding “pause”), I don’t think we have to worry about adverse publicity if some cleaning up is required. if anything, it would be received in a much more positive way than the apparent hiding of information that has been seemingly prevalent over the last 2 yrs.

Don’t forget that the Membury planning application is still in limbo = the timescale to get repairs underway is moving continuously to the right…

147

They are still repairing Vikings without the new buildings

148

Linking the planning application to the job advertisements, it would seem that the bulk of the repairs were/are to be scheduled in the new buildings. A “drip feed” repair schedule elsewhere will make little difference to the overall programme.

Of course, until the building construction status is known, who in their right mind would leave their current employment & apply for a job that has no fixed location or start date yet?

149

All three of their bays at SS being occupied with Vikings and then three new bays is more than a drip feed. More of a momentary loss of the civilian fixing capacity until the new build is built

150

Whilst any repairs are a bonus, it is still a limited capability.

We should have been providing financial input, VGS instructors & cadets to BGA facilities well over a year ago. At least that would have maintained some gliding capacity & more importantly considering the grounding timescale, instructor currency wouldn’t be so much of an issue as it will be.

151

But that would be far to easy for them MikeJenvey! Surely you should know that the MoD never take the easy route?

152

I wonder perhaps if instead of a petition to “tell the government that we’re not happy” and expecting them to magic more money out of thin air, someone could set up a funding page. If all those people griping and making demands instead chipped in £100 each we might actually get another airframe fixed.

153

wonder how far this is gone, not going to lie, I do agree with most people here. The publicity has dropped and has made no significance to developing cadets and to be fair, many cadets I have spoken to are quite happy with the change.

154

Are the cadets happy or know no different? The only cadets I’ve heard of who are ‘happy’ are those on the verge of timing out either 18 or 20, which are probably the last group to have experienced gliding,

At a recent Wing event the majority of staff were resigned to what has happened but were by no means happy and expressing the view we are having more ‘admin’ to do and have to concentrate on other activities which means we don’t fully meet the Aims of the Corps. Just as well we don’t have to comply with the Trades Description Act. Whether they will or not, but a number of all ‘ranks’ have said if there is nothing positive with a proper timeframe, they are going to find something else to do, worryingly 2 of the sqn staff have intimated this.

We started acquiring flight sim kit at the back end of last year and have used it (with a chap (ex-cadet) who has a PPL) which has seemed to keep the cadets entertained.

I think that a sigh of resignation cannot and should not be construed as a positive, which is what I feel has been heaved across the Corps and the general outcome will be fewer cadets, which will tick boxes for the finance shinies in the MOD.

155

The air cadets are the most privileged of the cadet organisations as flying and gliding are a valuable and expensive resource. Unfortunately gliding has not been fully supprted for years with squadrons failing to turn up or misinformation regarding how long the courses take disaffecting cadets. Also a lot of adult leaders are not aviation orientated, preferring to swing from the trees in the local forest. Aviation is a technical subject and not many these days have the knowledge. Its easier to go to WH Smith and buy a book on survival.I have heard of squadrons that want to be styled RAF Regiment squadrons, in which case they should join the ACF I would rather see the money spent on the front line, after all they protect us from Mr Putin and others, don’t they ? The most practical solution in my mind is to have a super Syerston that runs 7 days a week manned by full timers with gliding courses competed for, plus the expanded AEFs to facilitate some flying. In 2018 with a very small requirement for pilots in the services all expenditure must be scrutinised. it is human nature to be resistant to change but we must learn to move on.

156

No, no & no again. You need to spread the assets across the regions rather than curtail gliding in some areas. What’s the point of a 7 day a week centre when apart from school holiday time, cadets can’t attend. Oh, how about staff transporting cadets or getting enough instructors. Sorry, not a chance.

157

The ACO need to accept that the BGA are perfectly capable of flying air cadets without their own restrictions (Between 21 and 65, Full Cat, 500 launches on type etc). My own club have opted not to fly Air Cadets simply because of how insulting the added requirements are. BGA pilots are all correctly licensed, experienced, and insured to do such flying, The upper figures in the ACO need to accept this, and let us get on with what we do best, without putting additional barriers in the way, They’re only hurting the cadets even more.

1 Like
158

Very much agreed; same for CAA-approved flying club - why on earth does there need to be impediments put in the way??

159

Because it would give the bean counters at the MoD to close ALL VGS down? Seeing as it would probably be cheaper just to pay BGA clubs to do the flying?

Therefore the chaps at 2FTS are out of a job? Just a guess?

160

The main thing here is the viability of 2 FTS and the jobs, uniformed and MOD civvie, it provides. Pass the gliding to the BGA in toto or even in part and do you need 2 FTS, its infrastructure and the hangers on within it?

With the RAF shrinking like a wool jumper in a hot wash, it needs all the peripheral parts (including the Air Training Corps) it can muster to justify jobs its continuation as a stand alone organisation.

Digger has an extremely valid point, we have more staff instructional courses to do with “army militaryesque” activities which are compulsory to instruct cadets in the activity and none at all to do with aviation, a practical interest in which is mentioned specifically in the Aims of the Air Training Corps and has been since day one, when there was a much greater relevance and need to instruct cadets in military skills, given they faced going to war and until 1960 NS. Now it’s a time filler which in the face of little else is bumped up way beyond its importance/need, given the opportunities in the military don’t exist. At least with aviation there are opportunities beyond the military.
Also as he says some squadrons like being in green more than blue, I’ve visited a local squadron several times in the past 2 months to arrange joint activities (you can only do so much via email) and all but once have they been in green and only doing classroom FMS. I get the impression the CO bought some MTP and seeks to wear it as much as he can. They were doing a radio night and were in greens!!