AEF Weight limits

What is the weight limit for flying in a Tutor on an AEF, wanting to know as I’m not exactly light :wink:


Lower limit is 35 kg…

Upper limit = 114 kg - that’s a fraction over 18 stone in old money…

Both without EB85 parachute.

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Didn’t realise the lower limit was that low! :slight_smile:

I have 3 cadets that don’t make that lower weight limit

Weight now has to be listed on the new FTS Form 005 - AEF Flying Programme sheet.

New Cadet Proforma, to be completed by the pilot(!), FTS Form 004.

Both in Sharepoint.

What’s that for?

Would that be the one that lists what activities the cadet has done during the flight?

Correct. (Characters to make up the list number!)

Ahh, good principle - as long as the correct details match up with the correct order of cadets!

I assume (?!) 005 is to ensure the “35kg” cadets fly first, and the “114kg” cadets last?

This might sound a bit of a silly question, but why do the cadets fly in weight order like that?

It doesn’t strictly have to happen, but depends on the empty weight of the aeroplane - each Tutor is different and the empty weight can vary by up to around 30kg.

Each aircraft has a maximum weight, which in simple terms is made up of the aeroplane itself (which stays at the same weight throughout), the crew (with kit, cushions etc) and the fuel. With the Tutor this can be quite limiting if both crew are heavy (normally about 85kg+). As you burn fuel during an AEF serial of say 3 or 4 cadets of 25 minutes each, it means that there is more weight available for the crew, so assuming the same pilot, you can theoretically increase the weight of the passenger each time as it you burn around 15-20kg (ish) of fuel per sortie.

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Also there may be (a) centre of gravity limits for the aircraft & (b) as the type of parachute is specified, at 30 Kg, you want to go down, not be blown upwards! :wink:

Suggest when you go next time to the AEF let the staff there worry about that but you could give them the heads up when you arrive. Perhaps you don’t wish to go if you cannot fly.Mike Jenvey talks a lot of horse sense.

Thankfully in the Tutor, without any baggage (and even with some) the CofG is alway within limits, unlike some others.

The lower limit is a parachute safety weight limit. Too light and the parachute can be uncontrollable and even invert on itself. The upper limit is to do with the passenger and fuel weight. The aircraft starts a 3 trip sortie with 120ltrs of fuel in, enough for the 3 trips and the required safety and diversion fuels - with my weight of 82 Kg that means that I can take a passenger who weighs another 87Kgs on the first one (a rough figure depending on the aircraft basic weight). So after the first trip you can add another 20kgs ish onto the weight you can take. Thats why heavier cadets (and staff) get to fly last on the sortie.
What is sad is the number of trips lost because Sqns bring cadets who are too small or too light. The limits are there for safety and are not discretionary, so Sqns should save them a wasted trip and getting their hopes up and tell them they cannot fly rather than chancing it.

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It also depends on the what is used to weigh them. Between the scales at the med centre (annual medical), home and the Squippers’ scales I can easily get a range of 5kg or so! It’s a tough call to make - the other way round I suspect you’d find far more cadets missing out due to overcautious staff.

What I find interesting is that when I was a cadet no one was stopped from flying on height or weight grounds.
Given the new joining age, there is every possibility you will find younger, smaller, lighter cadets being eligible and being denied for something they have no control over, which will do nothing to want to make them stay in the Corps. Most of our year 8 joiners are ready to fly ie done sufficient classification training due to the order and way we do it, by the time they are 13/3 why we still persist with this age for things baffles me when the age for joining is potential only just 12 for an August birth. What is the message that is coming from the AEF fraternity to many of these cadets? Eat more in an age when there is media driven paranoia about kids eating things.
What is required is investment in parachutes that are suitable for smaller, lighter cadets and not a you can’t because the organisation can’t be @rsed to have the right equipment.
Interestingly the weight mentioned above is not a figure I’ve seen as a body weight since I was about 19 and not through the best part of my cadet life. For most of teenage years I weighed between 15 and 16 stone … ideal for a front row forward, like now not a flabby weight. So by those comments I wouldn’t have been able to enjoy AEF in Chippies like I did.

You may struggle to find a manufacturer to supply a compatible parachute. Once you’ve done so you could contact the relevant authority.

You may remember the reports of the sad incident up in the NE a few weeks ago. That person had a specially adapted parachute to cope with her small stature and weight and had to get through several hoops to use it - and is now sadly no longer with us.

13.5 and the manufacturers specified weight is a sensible compromise.

No, just teach them to be patient and not take everything for granted. I got approximately 8 minutes gliding whilst in the cadets. Did I sulk? No, I got on with life and made my own avenues.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with sulking it’s about the organisation actually providing opportunities it advertises.

If we apply the average time as a cadet as being 2ish years, we will start to see the first major exodus of the first tranches of year 8s leaving in the next 6 months and if like all but around ½ dozen or so on our sqn who’ve been on annual camp, due to our location, they won’t have got anywhere near an aircraft for the thrill and experience of an air cadet flight. I recall much made of the ‘tick list’ of things for a cadet to achieve in 18 months, which is now best ignored as very few could ever achieve it. I’m surprised we’ve managed to keep cadets for as long as we have on a diet of AT and ‘youth club’ activities. To say be patient is all well and good if you live your life being patient.
You like me and thousands of other cadets over the past decades have had the opportunities which are now denied cadets and are the fodder of history books, and as I say in my day I do not recall any cadet being told they can’t fly due to their size, this a phenomenon of more recent years. We as cadets were all sizes and nothing was denied us. I had my first flight in a glider a year after joining and only missed out on a chippie flight due to a bout of flu, but that came on my first camp and my second 2 months later. But that was the norm back then, god knows what the norm is now.

If we were a business then we’d have parachutes to fit all comers in our age groups.

The weight limits for cadet flying is due to the parachute?
Why do we insist that cadets wear parachutes?

As a cadet, my first gliding experience in a Sedgeburg was sans parachute.

Civi light aircraft flying would be without a parachute.

All for the flying and gliding accidents that I can remember over many years sadly parachutes didn’t save any lives.

Playing devils advocate here
Do we need to restrict the cadets flying because they do not fit into a parachute?