AEF Contingency and Concurrent Activity

Adult Staff Execs
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61

This, this and a thousand times more this!

I wound’t be expecting the full 4 hours we expected to be at the AEF to be filled with a contingency plan. but hell lets make something of the day and make it worthwhile for the Cadets (and CFAVs) who drag their butts out of bed at oh-my-its-early o’clock to say that got something out of it more than a 3 hour (or more) round trip in a coach.

I understand the desire to turnaround and rush back home, but if you (CFAVs) we happy to commit to the AEF escorting then stick around for an hour. Your family aren’t expecting you back home until XXhrs, and you assigned the day to AEF so its a bonus to get that job done when you get home, not a priority.

I have been to a selection of interesting talks delivered by RAF personnel and the Cadets have loved them. OK so these were specialist events, set up in advance with a known speaker on a known interesting subject, typically about their time on a operation or exercise which gained particular interest and is an entertaining story

And yes i know not every AEF pilot will double hat as a Chinook pilot who has taken small arms fire in theatre or be a fast jet pilot and can talk about escorting Air Force One into British Skies and have the slide deck to match the story ready to hand, but consider one of the elements Cadets really enjoy: talking to RAF personnel
They always enjoy it. be it at an annual camp, or simply at an air show - Cadets love talking to the RAF and even more so now we have a “Selfie” culture

99% Cadets love flying, and many will exclaim they’re going to be a RAF pilot or are otherwise inspired by the experience when asked what they thought about their 20 minutes
the next best thing i have seen influence Cadets to the same degree is hear from someone inspirational.

Often this has been an after dinner speech at a Squadron event (dining in or awards night).
A local RAF veteran offers a 10-15 minute piece on their life in the RAF, invited in the hope there is some inspiration and aspiration for the Cadets to follow in their footsteps.

As I say the average AEF pilot won’t have a “best seller” story to tell, but they do have pilot knowledge, understanding and experience which they could use to inspire in other ways than flying. Why not offer an hours “day in the life” style story of being an RAF pilot? or as Foley suggests some of the theory that goes behind flying?

From an hours chat:
the Cadets will be entertained, perhaps learn something and could even be inspired.
the day becomes worthwhile as the Cadets got something from the day, while the CFAVs still get home sooner than expected without hanging around longer than feels necessary (ie filling the full 4 hour afternoon slot)

It would seem @Foley has that approach, it would be appreciated if others did to, at least offered an alternative to going home straightaway.

I have been in those situations and would rather get home 3 hours sooner having achieved something from the day, than 4 hours early and say all i achieved was a detailed understanding the comfort of the coach seat

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62

And this sometimes happens but is of course dependant upon staff availability and or willingness. All AEF pilots are perfectly capable of delivering an interest talk for an hour. I don’t think it’s lazyness on behalf of the AEF, but may be more of a cultural thing. Some AEF pilots don’t have an Air Cadet background and may be reluctant to volunteer to deliver a talk to 20-30 cadets, but are quite comfortable delivering an air experience sortie on a one to one basis?

Some AEFs have access to better facilities than others. Some have other aviation based facilities near by, for example the museum at Cosford or access to a PTT.

I think if visiting cadets or staff tell us what they want on a day to day basis we can tell them whether we can deliver on that request or not?

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63

Nailed it. Of the cadets I know, the only time they ever really get to speak to a pilot is at an AEF - and then they are normally so overwhelmed by the whole “flying” thing, its rarely a full on “chat”.

If the flying isn’t taking place, then a 30min conversation between a member of the AEF and a group of cadets about pilot school, aviation, their career etc is still going to be worthwhile. Suddenly it makes a 4-6 hour round trip worthwhile - they’ve had an experience they wouldn’t normally have had, hopefully got an insight into the RAF/military flying, and had a Q&A so they can ask questions pertinent to them. You dont need to be “qualified” in anything other than being a human being to talk about this stuff. Hell, you could deliver your experiences of Basic training in the 1970s and the cadets will still be totally wide eyed and enthralled.

Even a member of Babcock ground crew spending 20mins explaining the walk around checks on an airframe would give them more of a practical insight into airframes than your average CFAV will ever be able to deliver!!!

You’ll be amazed at how little preparation that actually requires, it can be rolled out in the 10mins after the decision has been made to cancel, will take 30mins and suddenly the impact of the weather has been lessened as people - hopefully in both camps - will feel something has been achieved.

But, it needs a bit of a culture shift in both camps. And yes, it was suggested to RAvO some years back. I’ll be suggesting it again shortly.

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64

Is your attitude to all cadet activities that you’d rather be at home and are waiting for an excuse, or is it just flying?

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65

The Points made about the RACs above is exactly spot on. Someone needs to get a grip and make this model work properly.

Get rid of the AEF concept and instead of flying slots create aviation training days (or whatever you want to call them). Merge the AGSs into that and we then have trained pilots, groundschool staff with PTTs. These deliver aviation training - show cadets the aircraft, have a go at PTT, meet pilots and do meteorology, air nav, visit air traffic etc and of course fly- subject to acceptable conditions. If flying can’t happen the day hasn’t been a waste.

All of the infrastructure is there now so it just needs someone to inject some leadership and make it work. They do it for aerospace camp and this will reach far more cadets.

If the RAF decides to bin VGS and AEF for a single powered aircraft (fixed wing microlight) for all cadet aviation then this model will fit that nicely.

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66

Having just read the whole thread, I felt I would like to put another POV. I’ve been taking cadets flying at our AEF for 3 years now. Most times most of them get to fly. There are times when it gets binned, either at the start, or part way through. Every occasion I’ve been there, there has been something sorted for cadets to do. On one occasion, the flights sims were brought into action, another time cadets were taken into one of the hangars and given a tour of the Tucanos that are flown from there. Every cadet got to sit inside the aircraft and had an indepth talk with the UAS pilots escorting us. Last time, the weather got the better of the flying as low cloud and fog came in. However, 3 Apaches had flown in and were grounded by the weather. So we were offered a tour by the pilots, who spent a lot of time talking with the cadets and showing them around the aircraft. As couple of posters have said, inspirational, a complete surprise and much appreciated by everyone.

As a CI I dont get paid, apart from mileage and the pleasure of giving our cadets this experience. I do give up my time to do this, but its so worthwhile to me. But I would like to add something else, which is a frustration at our AEF and I imagine at others too. What about those squadrons who dont turn up, who dont notify the AEF that they’re not turning up, who assume that a look out of their window in the morning is going to decide whether its flying weather or not. Having talked with Babcock staff and the pilots, it is a frustration, especially for pilots who have given up their time, prepped for the day and then end up doing the sitting around on the off chance that cadets are going to show. I’ve come with our allocated 4 cadets, knowing I could have filled those spaces 3 times over, to find that there are spaces on the day, due to no shows. To me, it’s bad manners to not at least notify if you’re not going to turn up!

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67

Not at all. Our AEF was about 2-2½ and is now 2½-3 hours drive, if you’ve get told flying’s not happening what would you do, get home at a reasonable time or do something just to amuse the cadets?

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Would I rather completely waste 6 hours, or have an 8 hour day including a couple of hours in which cadets actually get something useful out of the experience? Easy one.

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69

Diff’rent strokes me old mucker. But if you want to knock, crack on, because it bothers me not. I know what I’m happy with.

70

Yeah, I think that’s quite apparent. If you’d rather not take a bit of extra time to benefit YOUR cadets, then you are doing them a disservice. Well done you.

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71

I guess you know that one thing a pilot wants to do is fly? Perhaps AEF staff might lay on a tour of a hangar, but surely keeping cadets interested falls to Squadron staff.

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Then you don’t know many pilots. Both military and civilian pilots (as in professionals) don’t just take interest in flying, but pretty much have to become geeks in meteorology, navigation, mechanics, physics, the list goes on… Every single one of my mates would happily talk for hours about any of those subjects, me included. Usually you just have to ask!

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73

Er’h, perhaps more than you think. I am a retired VRT Officer and flew for 50 years, only ceasing a year ago.

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Great, well surely you’ll agree with me then that you’d happily talk for an hour or so about one of the many subjects we pilots know inside out? It’s not exactly a hardship. Of course pilots want to fly, but if the met is pump then it ain’t gonna happen! On every training squadron I have been part of we have done presentations when the met is poor…

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And it does happen. Not all the time. Sometimes because the visiting staff/ cadets don’t want to stay. We can’t make them stay…

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76

I can’t believe the attitudes I’m seeing here, and the lack of people management skills.

I remember doing a gliding course over the winter of 1968/9. Most weekends were weathered off so we learned a related skill. The VGS put us to work eyesplicing and backsplicing ropes. Forced labour we all called it. But I used those skills to make some very presentable mooring ropes later in life.

I’m a CI now, and took a contingent of cadets to the AEF last month. We started flying but the wind gusted above the limit (25kts for cadet flying) so flying was suspended. One of the instructors took us all on a superbly guided tour of the civilian maintenance and restoration hangar next door. His passion for informing the cadets was exemplary. Eventually, after a good hour of fascinating stuff, we got the call that no gusts had exceeded 25kts for the preceding 30 minutes (that’s how the AEFs define the wind limits) so we got back to flying. By being especially slick, we got all 8 cadets airborne, with the lowest priority cadet landing on the very tick of nightfall.

I’m taking another 8 on Thursday.

And my day job? Senior Flying Instuctor for a commercial school after a 45 year career with the airlines.

All instructors? Counter productive. Many AEF pilots are holding pool pilots, and, even in civilian schools, many trial flights/air experiences are delegated, these days, to suitably experienced and selected non-instructors. Instructors are in increasingly short supply as the young ones get hoovered up by the airlines. Those holding pool pilots do a marvellous job as (slightly) older generational role models. One the older instructors cannot (though, of course, their skills provide other strengths).

So my local AEF comes though for temporary suspension of flying. A decision to stop for the day, or not start, is ALWAYS going to result in an unproductive day and early return. ‘Twas ever thus. And setting cadets to work splicing tow ropes, or some modern equivalent, would never be an option.

Until 2FTS allows FFS and ground school to be taught at AEFs (sometime after hell freezes over) there IS no productive and relevant training that even a QFI could deliver that would fit th bill. And expecting a Flying instructor to start leadership exercises or some such is pie in the sky. Not their skill set. But it might be YOURS as a CFAV.

Bottom line: stop slagging off the other side and engage in some self help.

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77

As outlined before, this is not always possible, especially if there are only a few CFAVs that can drive the sqn mini-bus, or, their ACO “qualifications” do not match possible concurrent activities that could fit in with timings / location / facilities / equipment.

It would also depend on the number of cadets / stage of trg if relevant for a particular activity, etc.

Eight cadets to go flying on one allocation?? Bl**dy lucky, best we get is 2 or 4 from one sqn.

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8 cadets from 2 squadrons.

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I don’t think anyone’s suggesting that, rather all AEFs.

That’s exactly the sort of thing I’m advocating - simply that all AEFs have something like that up their sleeves for exactly these sort of circumstances. Currently it seems to vary considerably between units (and probably between staff on the units).