Have people not considered that many of the courses we have are a bit niche and or require personal investment in time and perhaps money and as such will only ever appeal to a minority.
Our main office noticeboards are festooned with lists, posters and so on of things on offer and have been for years, as they became more widely used emails pinged round everyone. So while all the modern methods of communicating can be used, unless people look at or use these, only if are they really interested and have the time and potentially money to invest, uptake will remain the same.
But it’s all too easy to blame sqn cdrs for not putting things out there.
That’s up to them to make that decision, not you. Offer the opportunity; they choose whether to take it.
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That’s what I’ve said.
It’s all put up and out there for them to read and do if they want. I don’t give a monkey’s if they do or don’t, I’m not their dad. The fact that year on year staff don’t says more IMO about the activity than the person.
Unless you add compulsion like the mandatory training people will pick and choose. Maybe find out why they don’t pick or choose things is what’s needed.
For me the biggest thing is personal interest, then a combination of time and money, especially where time on top of the courses is needed and having your own equipment is almost expected. Also the amount of time and money to get to a point where it’s useful and if this means an NGB qual, maintaining that, which may need more than just doing it through the ATC.
When people have families then their focus narrows as their families demand time and money, leaving very little extra, unless they get themselves into debt. Which is something I would never advocate, directly or by inference.
If you are a qualified instructor in something I’d say you should be doing it as a hobby anyway in order to have the right base level of experience from which to instruct.
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As a hobby it would mean you have an interest it’s likely to be quite long standing and then invested the time and money. We have a few paddlesport types on the Wing and one is a good mate, has a large shed with various boats and associated kit in it, his girlfriend bless her, puts up with it. I know a bloke who goes MTBing (not in the ATC) who has a Transit which he goes away in and has built in a jet spray to clean his bike(s) and him.
As for a member of staff just going on a course that’s advertised, it’s a different thing entirely. They may see it as a course that means they can come back and get stuck in, whereas this may not be the reality. They return with sense of having wasted their time, which gets passed onto others, which has a spiral effect. This could explain why it’s a struggle to get people interested / involved, so perhaps with every course especially AT, it should be detailed what is really involved to get to point where they can deliver with it or use at the sqn, with timeframes and costs. They then go into it, fully aware.
Please consider what you need to include in any further discussion on previous points before we continue to spiral.
From what I’m reading, a large portion of what you are debating is on the same side end extra tangents are being added without value.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the content, but the delivery is just rude.
People are allowed to express opinions, and as long as they don’t conflict with the AUP, then their opinions are just as valid as yours or mine.
A fair point now I’ve got more time.
That conversation is heading towards a circle - interest>awareness>advert>ability>interest…
@redowling is trying to make sure what is available reaches those who are or might be interested. However niche a course might be, there will be an audience.
To actually add to the conversation, the organisation generally has been pretty bad for a while at “selling” internally and generating interest or ensuring the right people are reached with opportunities. Recent work on the portals/hubs etc looks to be improving that, but without those planning and running things being proactive with advertising and results analysis the situation won’t improve much.
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i would be surprised if anyone was showing an interesting in a course who didn’t already have interest in the topic, be that AT, radio, first air, BTEC, shooting or whatever
in our Wing at least our WATTOs have been clear at what is required for the AT courses and perhaps why any qualification above Trekking is only completed by those who take part in the sport on a personal level too.
Exactly. Any course I’ve ever been on explains the pathway to assessment and to gaining a qualification.
It’s because people don’t like that answer that you get the grumbles.
“What, you mean I actually have to spend my own time learning to be proficient enough to have some decent personal skills and safety & rescue skills before I can take other people’s children out to supposedly teach this activity? What do you mean I can’t just crack on, how hard can it be?”
This expedition is designed to deliver the same initial inspiring experiences that I got a couple of years ago during a week at Fairbourne. The journey to Sea Kayak leader is a long one and requires the time, effort and money to gain experience - it took two of us since Oct 2018 until Sep 2020 to gain the qualification, out of about 7 or so that attended the same week. I’ve sunk a load of VA into the right leader kit etc. over the past two years.
The past few years, HQAC have done a similar thing with canoe leaders - developing people at a higher ‘Leader’ level widens the base of the instructor pyramid. They offer experiences and sessions that inspire people (CFAVs and cadets) into the sport and put them on the pathway to gain their own instructor quals. The aim being that the net result is we get more cadets out paddling - and it does work - there are ample case studies.
There is no overnight fix - you need to inspire people into seeing what they can do and what they can deliver to generate new leaders at all levels.
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Do you have any plans for other courses or logbook days in canoeing? I’d love to push towards my Canoe Leader, but short of the full weeks at the AT centres, there aren’t really any opportunities within the organisation.
Could we look at the odd lake day somewhere? Your Region borders mine and I’d be happy to travel to get more days in here and there.
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I would be up for this too. I would like to work towards paddlesport touring leader or sheltered water canoe leader, but opportunities have been a bit scarce for obvious reasons…
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I think we are particularly nobbled by the inability to do overnights. I’d be more than keen to do stuff like that as I need to get some coaching sessions in for my WW & OW Canoe coach, but we can’t be seen to be creating the conditions required for people to stay overnight at the moment, so limited to single day / reasonable commuting distance activities.
@Baldrick PM me where you are based and if it’s a reasonable travel distance for us then we could do some open water stuff. @pEp might be a bit far without accommodation.
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Do you mean Open Water Canoe Leader? PTL and Canoe Leader are both moderate open water environments; PTL just gives you Grade 1(but not quite 2) rivers as well.
I don’t know what I mean to be honest! I just want to move up from Paddlesport Leader and Instructor.
Lol, yes then - Canoe Leader is now split to Open Water Canoe Leader and White Water Canoe Leader if I remember correctly, so if it’s open water stuff you are doing then canoe leader is probably the answer.
Sounds like PTL could be a 2-3 day assessment depending on your prior experience as it involves open water, moving water and a limited coastal element too, so OW canoe leader and a 1 day assessment might be the quickest option.
Ooh, I didn’t know that. I read the (limited) info on the PTL on the BC website and it just sounded like a more advanced version of PL, expanding the remit a bit.
TBH I haven’t paddled properly this year, only a couple of days out, so before anything I need to get back up to speed.
If and when we can stay overnight again (and we come out of lockdown 3.0) I’d be keen on getting more experience with a view to working towards something like Open Water Canoe Leader.
We could take this to PM, but it might be of use to others so I’ll keep to here for now…
It is, in essence - but I think because the remit includes G1(2), tidal waters up to 0.5kts, and moderate inland open water providers are suggesting that a 2-3 day assessment might be necessary (3 for those with limited sea experience).
I’m aiming to do the PTL assessment late Jan to get that remit on SUP so I’ll let you know how it is.
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I think I could meet you about halfway for days too, if that fitted…
I’m trying to match names on the SMS app with ACC usernames…
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