Adjusting back to Civvie Street

Adult Staff The Staff Mess
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Now. If this is in the wrong place please mods move it.
There is a wide plethora of people on here and in the ACO, who come from Military backgrounds. This is directed mainly at them. I find it hard to articulate or get my thoughts out very well so just bear with me.

I served my time, nowt special, did my bit served 8 years then I left with Early Release and have been a civvie for just over 6 months. And I hate it. I despise it. I am really having trouble adjusting.
I am angry, frustrated, pent up, aggressive and dont know what to do. So I am putting out a bit of a line to see if anyone felt the same after they left? Is it normal?
I have only been in this one job since I left, which I got lied too and isnt the job I was promised. I am very under qualified for much else except a Labourer or a security guard. Noone in my office/workshop does any phys. They all want to watch Eastenders and polish their cars, I am quite obviously an outsider. With my gym going and my outdoor hobbies. And integrity seems to be not just a dirty word, but doesnt exsist. And it feels like they are dragging me down. I always liked to think I always tried my best so I didnt let the lads down but now, everyone is out for themselves.

I am on the brink of just rejoining. Stuff it all and take the hit. I have already been in touch with a few different military people, including the Austrailian Army and Air Force. But I dont want to be a wraphand and just give up.
Its not a case of rose tinted glasses, I actually miss the hard times, at least the lads were with you and you could all laugh about it.

All I seem to live for is my dog and my 2 pence worth at my ATC Sqn. What little I can do with my current job being a little restricting.

Its getting to the point where I am having to actively stop myself aiming for the crash barrier on my commute to work.

Anyway thats enough of that, we arent yanks,
Is this a normal phase everyone went through?

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I am not in your shoes fella, but from what I understand and have experienced (family) yes, it is a trend. Don’t feet about it. It’s the military life which isn’t compatible with civvie street. Talking about it is half the challenge. Recognising it is a further step towards dealing with it. Although one could say that you don’t need to deal with it you just need to adjust to new circumstances. There are a few ways of adapting to new circumstances, and if military training teaches you nothing else it’s how to deal with the situation that you’re faced with with little training. There are plenty of support groups and forums out there to support you in this difficult situation, some of which I’m sure people will post shortly. The main thing to remember is as I said earlier, this is in no it’s something that’s affected people for years, but most importantly it’s something that can be dealt with.

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Stolen:

Adjusting to Civvy Street
Not my words unfortunately, stolen from another site.

Things to consider whilst adjusting to Civvy street:

  1. Speech:
    •Time should never begin with a zero or end in a hundred; it is not 0530 or 1400. It is 5:30am or 2 in the afternoon.
    •Words like “pit”, and “PT” will get you weird looks; use bed, workout, get used to it.
    •“F**k” cannot be used to replace whatever word you can’t think of right now. Try “um” instead.
    •It’s a phone, not a radio: conversations on a phone do not end in “Roger that” or “Out”
    •People will not know what you are talking about if you tell them you are coming from NCHQ with the 2 and a half or that you spent a deployment with the RN… no more acronyms

  2. Style:
    •Do not put creases in your jeans.
    •Do not put creases on the front of your dress shirts.
    •Do not refer to your suits numerically; your best jacket and trousers are not your number 1s
    •Wearing a hat indoors does not make you a Wren; it makes you like the rest of the world.

  3. Women:
    •Being divorced twice by the time you are 23 is not normal. Neither are 6 month marriages, even if it is your first.
    •Marrying a girl so that you can move out of the barracks does not make “financial sense”. It makes you a retard.

  4. Personal accomplishments:
    •In the real world, being able to do lots of press-ups will not lead to automatic promotion or help your career in any way.
    •Most people will be slightly disturbed by you if you tell them about people you have killed or seen die.
    •How much pain you can take is not a personal accomplishment.

  5. Drinking:
    •NATO is an organisation, not the way you want your tea made
    •In the real world, being drunk before 5pm will get you a written warning (or sacked), not a pat on the back from your boss.
    •Shouting “Naked bar” at your work’s Christmas party will have no effect.
    •That time you drank a bottle of Absinth and shat in your pal’s suitcase is not a conversation starter.

  6. Bodily functions:
    •Farting on your co-workers and then laughing hysterically while you walk away may be viewed as “unprofessional”.
    •The size of the dump you took yesterday will not be funny regardless of how big it was, how much it burned, how much it smelled… or how clear the photo is.
    •You can’t make fun of someone for their disability, no matter how funny the ailment is.

The human body:
•Most people will not want to hear about or see your balls. Odd as that may seem, it’s true.
•If your ■■■■ is sore, don’t ask your colleague on the next desk if he can see what’s wrong with it.

  1. Spending habits:
    •One day, you will have to pay for the things that keep you alive: heat, light, shelter, food, doctor, etc, etc
    •Buying a £30,000 car on a £16,000 a year salary is a really, really stupid idea.
    •Spending money on video games instead of on nappies is wrong.

  2. Interacting with civilians:
    •Making fun of your neighbour to his face for being fat will not make you popular in the neighbourhood.

  3. Real jobs:
    •They really can fire you. On the flip side you really can quit.
    •Screaming at the people that work for you will not be normal. Remember they really can quit too. You can’t tell your secretary to “follow it down” if she drops her pen. And taking naps at work will not be acceptable.
    •Sport is no longer part of your working week. Wednesday afternoons are for work, just like every other afternoon.

  4. The Law:
    •Your civvy boss, unlike your CO, can’t save you and probably won’t. In fact most likely you will be fired about 5 minutes after he finds out you’ve been arrested.
    •Even McDonald’s do background checks, and “conviction” isn’t going to help you get the job.
    •Fighting is not a normal thing and will get you really arrested and/or fired, not yelled at on Monday morning before being asked if you won.

  5. General knowledge:
    •You can in fact really say what you think about the Queen in public.
    •Pain is not weakness leaving the body. It’s just pain.
    •They won’t wear anything shiny that tells you they are more important then you are. Be polite.

Finally
12. Read the contracts before you sign them - remember what happened the first time…!!!

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It’s NEVER acceptable for a gentleman to wear a hat indoors!

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If I have read the job situation correctly…
[sub][If I have got it wrong, please ignore all after!!][/sub]

Quite some while ago, there was an ex-mil colleague who ended up in a similar job position; not as expected, very different to initial job description, not suitable for him. This caused no end of frustration based on his prior expectations - & coupled with leaving the “mob” where you can generally find a fall-back or solution to most things.

His solution was to sign up for new “trade trg” in the evenings in a local college. Can’t remember what he went for, but it was something akin to electrician, or similar. He got his formal qualifications, got some good hands-on experience with a local company, then branched out on his own. Now, “electrician” might not be your cup of tea, but perhaps there is something you could set your hand to? Of course, “distance learning” is now available in numerous subjects. Maybe you can get credits based on your Service experience?

SSAFA may have some ideas? You certainly won’t be the first, or last, going down the same road!

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Cheers lads, appreciare your time.

Yea that sums up my job experience. I was promised all sorts, told I would take a bit of a paycut for 3 months while on probation to learn the trade and how all the tools work. Then straight back up, on a good wage and out and about with the senior lads to deploy the tools. Now I stupidly lapped it all up, didnt use all my resettlement, signed for early release against my CO’s best advice and didnt want to see me go.
6 months later, I am still stuck there, mowing the grass, cleaning tools and counting allen keys.
Now I am not afraid of hard work and I can appreciate sometimes you have to work fron the bottom up, but this is seriously getting out of hand and just taking the absolute urine.

I tried to apply for the Scottish Ambulance Service, after an open day and a chat and informal interveiw with some station manager who was keen to snap me up, considering this area is hanging out for paramedics.
I never got past the application stage because of some NHS recruiting idiot being so unhelpful and refusing my application on the account of no A levels (Highers).
Yet my 8 years experience, Tours and exercises round the world, my first aid at work, FA in a CBRN environment, my Basic Trauma Medic, and Team Medic Qualifications stand for nothing.

Yet if I had 2 A levels in Home economics and PE I would have got in? I am not saying I am the finished product but I was really keen to smash it and give it my best and get back into a career that actually meant something.

I am just trying to cling onto my sanity till the Fire Service start recruiting and give them a try.

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To become a paramedic is now normally via a graduate entry scheme, hence the insistence upon standard basic university entrance qualifications. However, it should be the case that Accreditation of Prior Learning (APL or AP Experiential Learning) could be used, on a case by case basis for equivalency. Most universities (or sometimes faculties or colleges within a university) would permit some flexibility of entry qualifications for mature entrants (especially individuals that are significantly older than 18), but would still stipulate completion of a bridging/access course.

I shall speak with some people who should be a lot more aware/current on such things, and give you an update as to ex-mob entrants going SAmbS.

Is there any First Responder team in place near your current home location?

Would you consider 612 Sqn and go auggie medic? My bias, of course. Or RAMC Army Reserve, with a view to going FTRS (now a much-easier option to follow than the old mythical ‘S’-type engagement). But starting back off as a PTVR… such a move might reduce your withdrawal regrets of having left the regulars.

Sorry, you’ve probably considered all this already, just thinking out loud…

wilf_san

ps you may not wish to say from a persec perspective what your previous service was, but I have to admit, I can’t guess it from your posts…If I were a betting bod, I’d say maybe…ex-RM? …too many conflicting clues…no, I’ll say Army, and I’ll go infantry.

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PM Inbound.

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I can’t comment on the issues between full time Serving, and Civvy street, but I do sympathise with ending up in a job that was not as advertised, and finding that you work with people who are (and I don’t want to offend anyone here but) not in the same league as those you are used to working with, and who have not been educated in the same ethose of teasm work etc.

The good news is that you can move on. As Mike suggests, setting to and getting the qualifications you need for the job you want is entirely possible, as is moveing to another job with minimal hassle.

Start searching the classifieds, get some feelers out via Linked in etc. There are better jobs and better people out there. There are quite a few ex service guys running companies because I guess they found they couldn’t be doing with what you found. Also remember it is easier to find a job, when you have one, compared to coming from the dole, so stick with it, unless it really is the pits.

I don’t know how much the welfare or other services should continue to support you after leaving, beacuse you shouldn’t have been left to fend for yourself quite so much in the first place, but it has to be worth an ask?

Remember you are only 6 months into a new way of life, and it will take time to get settled and for things to improve. If you are contiuing to feel down, then DO get yourself to the quacks and ask for help. There should be no shame in it. If your leg was not performing properly you would seek help, so why not if your mind is not working properly?

Anotyher option might be to consider the reserves, as a sort of half way house, so you don’t lose your service connection, but have the time to branch out too. I hear they may be recruiting?

Good luck, and I hope things turn a corner for you too.

MW

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http://www.theoppofoundation.com/#who-we-are

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I have only just caught up with this thread and haven’t read all the replies and I am far from the same position having never served else as a CFAV, but the line above spoke to me.

i am not trying to imply the life of a CFAV run in parallel to a ex/regular but I know EXACTLY what you mean with the above.

On Friday it is not uncommon for me to ask my colleagues what they are doing on the weekend, “any plans?” and often the reply is “erm…nothing at the moment” when asked on Monday “how did you get on?”…there is a audible clunk as the cogs tick around in the pause…" erm,…i can’t remember"

i confess i am a very busy CFAV, already 5 weekends have had at least one day of CFAV “duty” this year with two more left before the end of the month, but as my hobby it is what i aim to do with my life and spare time.

i am left :S :? how my colleagues don’t have the same passion for SOMETHING other than the idiot box when they go home of an evening.
so i totally understand what you mean in that having an interest outside of work, having a life is alien to the majority of people!

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Some people just enjoy a bit of relaxation at the weekends I suppose. My weekend consisted of watching the rugby and going to the pub, and it was smashing. Different strokes for different folks.

Although I am a student…

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[quote=“steve679” post=23438]On Friday it is not uncommon for me to ask my colleagues what they are doing on the weekend, “any plans?” and often the reply is “erm…nothing at the moment” when asked on Monday “how did you get on?”…there is a audible clunk as the cogs tick around in the pause…" erm,…i can’t remember"

i confess i am a very busy CFAV, already 5 weekends have had at least one day of CFAV “duty” this year with two more left before the end of the month, but as my hobby it is what i aim to do with my life and spare time.

i am left :S :? how my colleagues don’t have the same passion for SOMETHING other than the idiot box when they go home of an evening.
so i totally understand what you mean in that having an interest outside of work, having a life is alien to the majority of people![/quote]
This does sound very patronising and holier than thou. Just because people don’t have their time planned to the nth degree or they can’t give a detailed itinery, doesn’t mean they aren’t doing things, just probably don’t feel it’s of much interest to anyone else. Only if I’m asked I may say I’m out doing a cadet thing, but that’s where it stops and don’t ever make a point of saying I’m doing this or that and what are you doing. Which is how you sound. I work with a few parents whose children play different sports or do other things (I’ve been one of those) and they make a big deal about it, to the point where I feel they are being tedious. IMO it goes with the territory of being a parent.
You need to have ‘down time’ and do as you want and that’s anything, I very much doubt people get home turn on the TV or other visual entertainment device and only do that. But if they do that’s their perogative and if I’m honest I enjoy nothing more than getting home and once things have been done, watching the tele. As I mention, how many people have children whose lives revolve around taking them to and from things (which will include the parents of our cadets), which could hardly be considered as doing nothing. After the best part of 20 years doing this with 3 children, sometimes probably spending as much time in the car as doing anything else and oh yes weekends doing cadet things as well.

Similarly I’ve had 5 weekends since Christmas with some form of ACO related activity and when it gets to the Monday I just look back and don’t really feel I’ve had a weekend (ie just mooching around), but then neither have a number of people I work with. It’s our choice to be CFAV and accept what that can entail in terms of the time we put in, but it doesn’t make us better than others.

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I left the army in 1996 after serving as a mechanic for 9 years. What I found was that my previous military experience counted for very little even after attending JNCO (leadership) course, trade papers and my LGV1 (C&E). I eventually after several crap short term contracts ended up going to university as a mature student. I only had O levels and my City & Guilds there is usually access courses for people that haven’t been in higher education which is a requirement to do an undergraduate course if you don’t have A levels or highers.

I now work for the NHS as a Resilience Officer which is quite good as I tend to work with a lot of emergency services staff plus A&E staff who have that very warped outlook on live and sense of humour that squaddies have.

One thing I did do when I left was join the TA as it was extra money and allowed that military connection to continue - granted it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but it was a means to end so to speak.

Civvies don’t get or remotely understand squaddies and in some cases it’s not even worth the effort. I still even now have people genuinely ask questions about the ‘Army’ and what it was like.

Several years ago the Scottish Ambulance Service specifically recruited ex military for their Special Operations Response Teams but now it’s the normal recruiting process and getting on a course at the Glasgow Caledonian University, it’s not a degree course from what I gather, I think the SAS is the only ambulance service not to do the degree route as such. If you are serious about the SAS then why don’t you try a local collage and see what highers they do at night school. The fire service is a good call to with loads of ex military in there but it is difficult to get into and I know a couple of folk that had several goes at it before getting in.

Don’t get despondent it’s not easy sometimes in the early days adjusting to Civvy life but just remember your life experiences are probably 100 times more interesting than your work colleagues and everyone in civilian life has a first name, just because you use it doesn’t mean you like them

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