ACP20 Pers Form 1-19


#22

Interesting how it’s appeared on Sharepoint but nothing down CoC on what is expected from the volunteer, except it has to be completed (but no timescale.

A bit like FA quals, DBS clearance, Data Protection Training, AVIP; loads of ‘must haves’ but no deadlines or what happens if you don’t have. No threats of suspension…


#23

Different wings making up their own rules on It?

…never seen that before.


#24

Spoke to my Whq the day I saw this grubby thing.Apparently they d had a few calls prior to mine but all expressing the same sentiments.Are HQAC on a mission to totally hack off the staff or what.?


#25

So, CFAVs agree to two pages of criteria - what about the other side of the coin? I don’t see any criteria that apply to the organisation.


#26

Thus it has always been and will remain so evermore.

Do not expect anything from the organisation except demands on what we do, how, why and when. It’s worth remembering without us there are no jobs and extra jobs we never had before, for these people making the rules up, it’s a pity they don’t realise this.

Our OC was hoping that these changes were going to bring a more friendly approach, given that Officers were no longer bound by military rules combined with the valuing volunteer project, but so far hasn’t happened.

Why as an organisation we need T&C for people volunteering beyond DBS and safeguarding training, is fast becoming more of a mystery.

The hold is that adults come into this organisation to work with and for the kids that join and our leaders know this and is wonder staff recruitment remains a major problem, and has become more and more reliant on preying on 19 year olds to stay, with stories of greatness that will be bestowed upon them and it doesn’t take long for that gloss to wear off and reality exposed.


#28

Interesting scouting rules and regulations document

Take a look at rule 15.6

a. Adult Membership and Associate Membership may be terminated by:
 resignation;
 in the case of adults not holding a particular appointment, by resolution of the Group, District
or County Executive as appropriate. The appropriate Executive Committee shall be under no
obligation to state its reasons for making such a resolution;
 failure to pay the Country, County, District and Group Membership Subscriptions (if required);
 failure to observe the terms of any suspension imposed in accordance with these rules;
 dismissal.
b. Notwithstanding any other means provided by these Rules, the Membership of any Member or
Associate Member of the Movement may be terminated by resolution of the Board of Trustees of
the Association.
c. The Board shall be under no obligation to state its reasons for making such a resolution.


#29

I do voluntary work for the local countryside service and they have a similar agreement. NO worries and everyone just gets on with it!!!


#30

Thats fine and nice to see the NT understand you cant just bin people on a whim.Our illustrious muppets seem to have forgotten that.


#32

Is it any wonder that people DON’T volunteer.

Surely the definition of volunteer is someone who does of their own volition unpaid with no legal or other obligation to do so.

I would suggest that any organisation stipulating that you do this and this and this, on top of in our instance a DBS, would be in for one hell of a ride in a court if it was taken that far. Bearing in mind the vast majority of people who volunteer have retired from their employment. Several groups in the village would collapse if the retirees stopped doing it.

Many civ comms would stop if those who had retired stopped. My chairman is retired and covers all of the working day appointments with RFCA and so on.

Ironically our organisation would thrive if some of the senior management retirees stopped.


#33

I used to work in the third sector. The definition which was widely accepted by our governing body was:

“A volunteer is only a volunteer up to the point of volunteering.”

Once somebody had reported in, they were treated as any employee. A bit like us! The big difference being that we managed our activities by saying “please” and “thank you”, and would you mind doing this?". It was a heck of a lot more effective than “You will, because I’m a higher rank, or else!”


#34

I do different things outside the corps and in not one of them has it ever been regarded as doing more than you want.

It is intriguing when you consider the ‘big society’ initiative that people volunteering and probably helping things happen that wouldn’t, volunteers are treated so shabbily, including people in the ATC, ACF and so on, with rules and conditions above what you might feel ‘normal’ today, applied to their efforts.


#35

To be fair, I think sometimes we’re our own worse enemy. There seems to be a fair amount of pressure applied to staff from WSOs and Wing Commanders, rather than the paid elements.


#36

In the main they are only doing someone’s dirty work, although some of those mentioned seem to get off on it.

I was asked when I took over this squadron if I wanted any help and I said yes, 3 members of experienced staff who want to commit the time. I didn’t hear that phrase again.


#37

Volunteer agreements are nothing new. It’s common sense and it makes sure that both sides know from the off what is expected of them and what is acceptable and is not acceptable.

What it comes down to is how both sides actually stick to it…


#38

But it’s the volunteer that should be calling the shots and not the other way round. If an organisation that relies on volunteers to keep it going starts making too many demands, they have the very real prospect of not being able to function. The fact most people volunteer out of a personal interest and or for altruistic reasons, probably explains why organisations put on volunteers to deliver more, while the paid staff do less.

A local wildlife centre has stopped offering a lot of school holiday, evening and other activities after they introduced a new ‘contract’ for volunteers for minimum attendance and so on. These were really popular and provided a valuable income, which has now been much reduced. I’ve forgotten how many dissected owl pellets we were shown the contents of by the neighbour’s kids when they were younger.


#39

So what we are saying is that volunteer agreements are the norm, well they are now, i can’t remember seeing such things 30 years ago i have to say. But like M_V_L has intimated we are, in some respects, our own worst enemy. I can remember the WHQ doing a lot more 30 years ago than what they do now. As for what RHQ do, well i am still trying to figure that one out. Because the staff there can see they can offload more and more to the volunteer they do, because we as the volunteer just get on with it. The mindset of “if we dont do it then no one else will”.
There have been a huge amount of service complaints over the last 15 years, some of which were valid, some of which were nonsense, another reason why there has been more and more emphasis of “volunteer agreements”, rules and regulations. We are, unfortunately, in a time where court action is easy to get and no one wants to be that person stood in the dock explaining why there wasn’t a piece of paper with a signature on it.
You are right that a lot of potential volunteers are put off joining a youth group because of the rules and regulations that are now in place. A lot of youth groups suffered and are suffering from the stigma of adults involved with kids.
I don’t know what the solution is, i guess we will moan and groan about it, we always have (it’s therapeutic :slight_smile) . Some of us will just throw the towel in and some of us will just sigh, adapt again and get on with it. The cadets will always be the reason i will stay. Just seeing the faces of them when they achieve something new, see something new and complete something outside of their comfort zone is enough for me.


#40

Agree; but it is such a shame that this is becoming increasing difficult to do, and consequently the frequency with which it happens is lessening.


#41

https://knowhownonprofit.org/people/volunteers/keeping/volunteer-agreements

Read this. It suggests a lot more work to do on behalf of the organisation…


#42

This acceptance is what our lords and masters prey on and use.

I think we do a lot, lot more than we should for this very reason.


#43

And when they think they are on top of it another bit of legislation will be introduced, it’s a forever changing landscape and trying to keep on top of everything will always be just out of reach. Not defending the permanent staff but there are enough of them at WHQ / RHQ (still working out what benefit they bring) and HQAC (Who are in general civil servants and don’t look at the impact of what they do from a youth group perspective but rather from a government department POV … there are some who are ex OC Sqns who get it but are drummed out with the monotony of the civil service.)