ACF staff as supernumerary ATC staff

Adult Staff Execs
1

So, this is going to be a fun one.

We want to use the skills of the ACF staff with whom we share our building. Is there a way to have CFAVs from other cadet forces can be made supernumerary within an ATC unit?

2

Officially no?

Unless they are also reservists and can be SIs I guess

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3

It can be done but Short answer is No.

Long answer yes but lots of hoops to jump through as no reciprocity between cadet forces. This means that everyone makes it up as they go each time. It’s permitted but it’s rare.

Best option might be to treat like a service helper & use that process & see if you can navigate through the bureaucracy that way.

I think if you do a bit of a Bolivian army drill & act like that it is the process people will recognise it as such & let it through.

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4

Do it and apologise afterwards sounds like an excellent idea.

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5

Presumably we can just turn up and help each other - issue would only arise if claiming VA or needing Bader access?

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6

This is the main issue as if they are not registered we can’t count them towards ratios or added to activities.

I think VA is often the blocker bit because it then becomes an arguement of budgets & double claiming etc.

I assume Service instructors can’t claim VA so this route would be the most logical.

Just do it and i will then become the process :slight_smile: policy can then be written to match.

But in general helping each other is like using an outside instructor.

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7

I’m pre-empting a problem that may not arise, but I can imagine Wing or Region civil servants not signing off on activities due to the number of CFAVs on the SMS activity not being in ratio, due to not being able to add other forces’ CFAVs on SMS.

8

My old contingent had the Army CFAVs added to Bader as Service instructors. Though VA and ratios didn’t matter as it all went through Westminster which recognises the other cadet forces

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9

Yeah we do similar, I am supporting an Army Section FTX in a month or so - I get it authorised and claim the VA through our side.

Similarly CCF(A) occasionally take my Cadets to AEF, we all muck in.

Must be a way, one RAFAC and all that.

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10

I think it is a tad easier to do on Westminster

11

I’d see if putting them down as SIs works in that case.
For all the joint stuff we do, we both maintain our ratios but swap skills within the overall group, if that makes sense?

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12

I think this is the way I’ll try it. It’s silly that we don’t have a system for this, given how we’re all being encouraged to be more purple, but perhaps that’ll come with Astra.

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13

I think as long as the ATC insists on being special and not using Westminster it’s going to be a struggle

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14

God does no one think these guys are not as busy as us in the first place - how will they have the bandwidth to just get involved as well……

15

They’ve asked to be involved…

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16

When I was in the ACF it was quite common for the same instructors to attend two or three detachments around their area: so swapping one or two of these for an ATC sqn, which might be more local, doesn’t sound unusual.

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17

Ok bizarre variant on this. Got a CCF (Army) cadet who is also ATC.

Said cadet wants to go as a CFAV with his CCF when he leaves school (who are happy to facilitate) but also wants to stay as an ATC cadet….

  1. is this possible?

  2. if not can they supernumerary back to the ATC as a helper whilst being a CCF CFAV (potentially commissioned)

Any ideas…….?

18

For me, I don’t see how it’s psycholgically/behaviourally possible to be a cadet in one organisation, and an adult in another.

It sounds like begging for chaos or calamity with your bowl out.

I’d work hard to not find a way through, and if one was found, I’d work hard at ensuring it didn’t happen.

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19

This is presumably one of the anomalies the new over 18s policy was meant to address?

I doubt they would have time to be in the ATC as well as complete the ACF training programme anyway.

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20

While I was still an ACF instructor I joined the TA (as the Army Reserve was still called at the time) and went through Phase 1 and 2 training with and ended up serving in the same platoon as one of my cadets.

At that time, we kept the two identities separate: in one organisation we had a cadet-instructor relationship, in the other we were expected to share a bash’a or use communal showers without making a fuss or demanding special treatment.

CWOs used to be treated more like adults as well. I remember ours used to take us shooting at the local RAF station: without a CFAV in sight he would sign for the weapons and ammunition, open and conduct the range, take declarations from us at the end, etc, etc. He also wore short sleeved shirts and an SD cap, but that was probably more of a local thing!