I’ve said it before - we need huge flexibility in staffing.
We need to bring about not just the systems, but the culture where an ACO ML can go on an ACF weekend as easily as they could help out the next door Sqn, where ACF and ATC go to the same range, in the same minibuses, and shoot at the same time - and we need to bring about a mechanism where units other either service who are struggling for staff can ask for, and get, help from both County and WHQ’s. It should be normal for small units of either service, particularly in very rural areas, to effectively merge so they can spend more time doing and less time surviving.
Sounds like the ideal solution is some type of situation where the single service cadet forces keep their own identity and training syllabus but work much more closely, making it easier for staff to help out the other services and for cadets to attend courses run by the other services. We could even share a degree of admin personnel across the services. Let’s call it a “Combined Cadet Force”.
Completely agree with the added suffix of without classing each other as external instructors or with paperwork for the same event showing different people in charge.
I’m spouting opinion now, but The ATC seems to becoming more of a monoculture & is in danger of becoming an echo chamber where only conformists views percolate to the top. (All though I am see hints that’s there a number of senior staff working on this behind the scenes e.g. working with ACF Inspire which is fab)
I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve been on a PU course & heard one of the students complain about learning tri-service ranks as the don’t see the point as we never use them.
Due to covid it’s going to be a long time before we can do multi-squadron events again due to transport & no overnight stays.
But if we share the building with another cadet force, why not make use of their skills & staff to help stabilise each other to allow us to get back on our feet and then keep building from there.
My local ACF have been thrown out of 3 separate venues in the past few years due to the behaviour of their cadets, not sure I would want to mix with them if I could! (Not like my old unit where the ACF were a great detachment with really good staff).
I find it hard enough to work with squadrons within the ATC… There is a lot of tribalism even within our own organisation, almost like a protectionism… It does feel like it is something that local coal faced staff are guilty of this mainly. Getting a straight answer out of some OC’s just on how things are for them at the moment is bad enough - they have to have better numbers than you, more activities on than you etc etc… It can get pretty boring.
I have had very few dealings with CCF, in my whole time as staff other than at ATF I don’t think I’ve had any dealings with CCF at all.
If we can’t even work together within the RAFAC what hope is there for working with other cadet forces.
Oh I absolutely recognise that siloed mindset, up to a new generation of staff to challenge it
I’ve been saying to my OC we should have complementary intakes of new cadets that are staggered with the other squadron in a our city, but he worries about losing cadets to them…
It’s sad to say but I’ve had more support from our local ACF & SCC than any of the local ATC Sqns. (Have had help from outside sector/Wg but nothing local).
Despite initial impressions we realised we don’t actually directly compete with each other except for cadets but a cadet will go where suits best & it’s better for a young person to join one of us than none of us.
It is the other ATC units that we most compete for in terms of staff, resources & support and unfortunately there are plenty of Sqns out there who want yours to fail and have no scruples about doing your legs in.
I do despair at the crab bucket mentality (almost culture?!?) of some in the ATC and my sympathy for the paid staff grows at having to manage some of the volunteers - I do wonder sometimes if those up top are being given accurate information by volunteers at the coalface when making decisions.
One advantage I found to the multi-service working was the positive effect on team dynamics & how it helped dilute some of the negativity that had crept into the staff team. It gave a different perspective & new ways of thinking bout things but without any compulsion or baggage that working with a difference Sqn brings.
Perhaps a quick win is have tri-service ranks included in the first class syllabus, building that culture from day one?
We could also do with widening the recruitment scope for new volunteers to beyond ex ATC cadets & parents.
Yep. Quite right.
My copy of Sea Cadet Regulations was a couple of years old. Now that I have a new version I can see that the current process has removed APO. Though, the same starting point exists as I described previously. Ex Cadet SR - PPO; Brand new instructors - PCI, unless they are looking to go into uniform in which case they join with “no rank” until they complete the basic induction. Then they are made PPO as well.
Yeah, I’m not interested in mixing formally with other cadet forces.
Every year we do a couple of joint events. Always bad behaviour from the ACF and frankly wetness from SCC.
If I were forced to as a routine I wouldnt be interested.
In my old Wing when I was a Cadet Silo working was very much the way of things and it wasn’t until my generation of Cadets and the one after us became staff that the local units all started to play nicely together. (1 fantastic Sector Commander who was then pushed out for 1 awful one really helped the process.)
That success could’ve been much gone the other way, there were people in that group of Cadets who I hadn’t liked from the age of 15 onwards, however they all moved on to different areas of the country as junior staff, if they had been the ones to stay and become the local Squadron Commanders would we have been so harmonious? I doubt it, I still can’t stand some of them and would walk the long way round not to have to talk to them.
Other Cadet and youth organisations don’t come with the same local baggage, you don’t have the pre-existing relationships, good or bad.
It very much depends on the units and more importantly the staff, I used to share a site but not a building with the ACF and they were really good, the OC was a good bloke and we all got on well, I wouldn’t have the same expectation of the local lot now, the OC is a massive tool and his Cadets appear to be feral.
It’s a volunteer organisation- force anyone to work together when they don’t want to is always going to cause issues especially if you have been burnt before. Even if you just open a dialogue it may help those routine events go smoothly e.g. inviting the corresponding Unit cdrs to dining in nights.
We should be open, encouraged & supported to tri-service but never forced.
It would depend on the school. Some CCF contingents are very happy sticking to themselves. Others would love a message from the local ATC squadron inviting them along to an event, or asking for staff to help out. But those schools are also likely to be anxious about making the first move. Personally I’ve built up good links with two nearby squadrons, just need to work on Wing who are not keen on joint working.
Agree it is hit and miss. I’ve contacted some CCF units to offer places on joint activities and not heard a thing back. Others have sent Cadets and generally they have been great to work with.
If Wing aren’t keen on joint working then that is in direct contradiction of the views of the last Comdt. I don’t know the views of the current one but I would be putting some downward pressure from the top if it were me…
There’s a difference between actively blocking & “not keen” often only providing lip service or doing nothing to help. To be fair if it is not of interest to the volunteer then they won’t divert their interest/focus away from what they mainly like doing.
