That would be fine, and would be exactly as it was when we were allowed to use them.
No one is seriously expecting the RAF to audit and assure every BGA site - that is what the CAA does surely? Which is why we’re all so annoyed about the whole thing.
If you told me to privately raise funds to pay for private gliding and the RAF didn’t meddle in it, I would snap your hand off.
@Paracetamol the organisation or body making group arrangements for an activity on behalf participating individuals holds responsibility, can’t be delegated or waived no matter what the activity.
So then why are we allowed to use private AT providers?
The whole issue is that risk mitigation equivalence cannot be demonstrated for civilian schools vs AEF and VGS. If a cadet dies in a mid air at a civilian school that cadet will have be subjected to a lower standard of safety management and risk mitigating measures. Anyone who thinks the CAA does detailed safety oversight of DTOs and BGA clubs has clearly never been involved.
Errrrr … do you work for the CAA or a ATO/DTO?
Not my experience from working at a ATO - I think its very unfair to say that our safety standards are less than that of my local AEF. The measures we (as a school have taken) inlcuding the use of EC (Electronic Conspicuity Devices) in our fleet have been an immensly ‘safe’ practice, moreso than is available in the Tutor.
That would be the ATC then. Oh ok, RAFAC
I just ran a report on SMS (didn’t know i could do that) - Since Jan 2019, 17 sorties (13 individual cadets) over 6 dates. (All Tutor)
Nope, no public money involved. RAFAC will set risk guidance, risk ownership locally.
It’s not just about the money and who pays for the activity. It’s about who organises the event, within the regulations, who authorises it and that’s all in the remit of RAFAC.
More so than Tutor? So you have fully integrated TAS, fully integrated PowerFLARM and operate under a Traffic service for all sorties then?
And full ATC for every movement? And on site medical cover?
Oh, and individual safety equipment fitted by specialists for every passenger? And five point harnesses and crush resistant seating? And parachutes? And ground training rigs? And your pilots are subject to enhanced medical screening? And your pilots are subject to 6 monthly standards checks and independent checks?
It’s not that others are unsafe, it’s that equivalence can’t be demonstrated.
Fine, we get it. No flying ever for little Johnny and Jennie air cadet, who’s only experience of air now will be breathing it. Thanks for that massively depressing rain of uncorroborated ‘news’.
Eh? Tens of thousands sorties are delivered each year. People need to realise the future is quality not quantity. The challenge is to solve the postcode lottery of opportunity.
I aged out within the last half of last year. I’d say I had neither quality (no, I’m not saying it wasn’t particularly enjoyable, but there certainly wasn’t much opportunity to learn to fly) or quantity, and I definitely had more flying than the average cadet.
What did you have and what did you expect?
What I got: ~1 hour AEF in a Tutor and ~20 mins in a Viking (Bronze wings)
What I expected: https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircadets/what-we-do/flying-and-gliding/
The reality is that unless you’re close (less than 45mins driving) you simply don’t get any of those “thousands” of opportunities.
In the last year of actual flying my squadron had 6 flights. Total.
The idea that we’re a flying organisation is a total myth and farce.
Future is:
AEF with more use of deployments to remoter areas
VGS with more use of accom for full weekend allocations and holiday courses
Expanded mass flying musters
Expanded aerospace camps with growing emphasis on drones and space
More emphasis on wider nature of aerospace than GA flying
Signposting to civilian scholarships
Much of the unequal nature of flying opportunity delivery to individual cadets is poor internal RAFAC organisation
why should that be the future?
and in what way can a Air Experience Flight improve in quality in a propeller driven two seater?
the instant win for improved quality is putting Cadets in a fast jet but that isn’t going to happen.
so a realistic improvement would be longer flight times, but that will mean fewer cadets fly, and we’d rather see more Cadets get something than have 3 cadets get an 90 minute sortie each
the quantity we (the customer) is expecting isn’t much - sufficient number of 20 minute flights to feel like flying is something we do regular not something someone once remembered doing two years ago…
So little to no actual flying. Thanks for that.
Did anybody actually ask cadets before coming up with that plan?
surely that won’t be in two seaters (Tutor or otherwise) in that case??
yes it is great filling a Chinook with 30 Cadets or a C-17 with 100 Cadets and complete a 25 minute flight, but 95% of the passengers won’t see a great deal instead staring at their mates the other side of the cargo bay - not much of a “flying experience” being strapped into a oversized washing machine seeing what limited view of the horizon out the window move up and down your field of view…
Cadets want to go flying, not on a bus tour in the sky