many an officer has been threatened with a broken bottle or indeed a few month ago a knife and thats just personel experiance… so why do we wear stab vets in the naffi…a damn good reason!
Simple - we would be like SNCO and CIs. Staff of the ATC with a CFC.
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You didn’t respond to my other point though…
about giving out the keys to a typhoon, well i didnt think this was a subject to actually comment on tbh…
No, about asking people who they are and what unit they are from. You wouldn’t just give away the goods or services to any jack who walked through the door and asked for them without saying who they were, where they were from and the authority they act on.
Thread drift, yes, unfortunately, it can happen.
At an RAF base quite some while ago, they used separate “zone permission” tags, laminated photo + zones listed as A-F - crossed out letter(s) = you didn’t have the entitlement to go there. NO-ONE was checking your main F1250, or your “need” to access that area or had valid reason to do what you said you were doing.
I advised OC Police (he had been on my OCTU flight), that the methodology was wrong & also that such tags could easily be manufactured. He said “tosh” so I challenged him to a security check. With his authorising memo in my pocket (just in case!!), off I went. I had already pre-made up a suitable tag, expecting him to out the word out that someone was trying to beat the stn system. No point in giving him an advantage! 
One hr later, I was in a fast jet sqn’s secure area (no normal access rights - only by dint of my forged tag) & told them I had been sent to do a random check on their classified documents - this wasn’t a particularly unusual event, but of course, access/authority had to be strictly controlled. I picked 3 (that I had security clearance for & “normal” access to) & did a 100% page check, & signed the front “check” sheets to that effect. Shortly afterwards, i did the same on another sqn. I was not “known” to any of the sqns’ admin personnel, they took my tag at face value.
So, about 3 hrs after first talking with OC Police, I advised him that I had beaten the system, He refused to believe me, so I suggested he confirm the document checks.
One week later, the tag system was cancelled & a much better access/authorisation method was in place.
Back to the thread…
I would say that elements there could be seen as advantageous - but on the other hand, access to some ranges / types of wpns would then probably go out of the window.
Exactly, so ID cards, and “laminated tags” aren’t neccessary. But you are right, thread drift.
For security reasons, I didn’t specify - but within your quote, one item is incorrect. With digital verification & other options these days, things have moved on…
(I’ll ignore the spelling on this occasion!)
In reality, after further research against other units, guess what, had my unit consulted with other bases that had similar security requirements, they would have quickly discovered that the “tag system” had either been used very briefly, or totally discounted due to the inherent weaknesses.
Consultation can be a very important & useful facility - it can save you a lot of work, & also give valuable feedback about what might be the best course of direction…
I don’t we disagree there, but the point was relevant to the 5-O discussion.
So, back on topic, I can’t find anything of a similar discussion about the CFC on any ACF/SSC discussion forums. It may be because of my guest login but I’d have thought there would have been something?
I’m still lost as to why anyone thinks that we will be in a different boat to the one that ATC SNCOs and WOs are in at the moment
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Here here.
Random words for post count
We haven’t actually had any kind of official announcement yet so haven’t had much to discuss.
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There has been a recent effort to tidy up the Personnel regulations and to make everybody’s status in the organisation clear and unambiguous. There is still work to do, but the change in the commission brings many questions and depending on those answers we may need to re-write large sections.
Microlight1’s point about which organisation people will now be commissioned into is central to this and needs to be clear before anybody can sensibly discuss what badge we will wear.
- Can people be commissioned into the RAFVR(T) with the new commission?
- If they can, is the plan to drag NCO/WO into the VR(T) still alive?
- If they can’t, logically the officers would be part of the main organisation like the other CFAVs and the cadets
Having looked at the Survey, I was surprised not to see an option for ATC, I joined the Air Training Corps and this title seems to be slowly being removed.
When you look at the ACF and CCF they use that on their rank slides and it makes perfect sense.
RAF section CCF officers can then use CCF as well
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Perhaps on the face of it they have less to lose in terms of the status of their commissions, so don’t see as much of a discussion point as those in the ATC do.
Frankly I couldn’t care less what they call us or what badge they decide to give us, if doesn’t mean a loosening of the choke chain around the necks of staff in the organisation and let us get on with what we joined as staff to do, then what ever we get called etc is of no consequence and it’ll still be SSDD.
Well that would be of a consequence if we truly become ‘civvies in uniform’ to those who like to hold the status of Officers over them and treat ATC Officers with a you will do this and that, or else as you could just say not doing it.
Going back to one of the cited rationale for the change …
How much time does dealing with the hundreds of complaints (can’t imagine it being less than that from the tone set) emanating from the VRT take? If this drops what will the people dealing with the complaints do all day? I have a vision of CAC, COS and RCs all sitting around a table sifting through piles of complaints each and every day, with another ½ dozen or so new ones each day. If they lose this workload will it mean they won’t have a cushy job? Which would be ironic. If they aren’t doing this what exactly do they do to justify their salaries? I see them as being about the same as dole scroungers in terms of what they actually contribute vs what they get.
- No
- No
- Yes
Essentially
We will be invisible to the Air Froce.
Also with the VR commissions being removed from ATC officers the RAF will be around 6000 personnel smaller.
Yes, makes sense to me too; but there seems to be a big move to remove the distinction between the ATC and the CCF(RAF). Remember the “Air Cadets” patches on DPMs?
also CCF (RAF) can attend any OASC previously limited to certain days