You know what really makes me laugh?


#585

It’s not the Police job to stifle the legimate rights of an individual or a group to protest.

It is generally accepted that in the course of protest certain low level offences are likely to ocour which in the normal course of events would be enforced but in a protest are allowed. (Section 5 of the Public Orderr Act and Obstructing a Highway being prime examples). The reasoning behind this is that the rights to protest as enshrined in Articles 9,10 & 11 of the Human Rights Act are so important that a certain amount of Leeway has to be allowed. If you can’t tell an MP what you think outside Parliament where can you tell them?

It’s also an interesting point that with a Majority of only 839 votes in an area that voted 55% to leave she really should be looking at her constituents wishes if she wishes to be re-elected.

Edited to add that “insulting” was actually removed from the offence by Theresa May as Home Secretary so it’s only abusive or threatening words which it now applies to.


#586

That’s nothing like what I said.


#587

Just ask Stephen Timms the MP who was stabbed or the Lib Dem MP whose contituancy manager was murdered then there is Airey Neave MP and Ian Gow MP who were both murdered by the IRA.


#588

What I find incongruous is that MPs expect some special treatment just doing their day to day work, when there are people getting stabbed or some other form of life threatening or changing attack, just as they are just going through their normal day. Where is their special treatment? Except maybe in ambulances and or hospitals.


#589

@Giminion.

There used to be a law in place called session orders, where the Metropolitan Police would be given directions to allow MPs access to Parliament unhindered when in session, which would have covered the recent situations.
But, guess what, the MPs repealed that legalisation, removing it from the Statue Books. It was replaced by ill thought out legislation purely written to remove Brian Haw, the anti war protester, from outside Parliament. That didn’t work and Brian Haw’s protest only ended when he died. No other legislation has been put in place since.
So who’s fault is it that MPs are being abused on their way to Parliament?
The police can only enforce laws passed by Parliament. MPs prepare and pass legislation. Courts interpret it. If the law is ambiguous, vague and not fit for purpose, it is not the fault of the Police.
The Human Rights Act ensure the right to peaceful protest. The Public Order Act protects the public from Harassment, Alarm and Distress. None of these terms are defined in the relevant acts, allowing different interpretations from MPs, Media, Courts and the CPS.
It is very easy to blame the Police and portray them as unintelligent statues as some MPs and parts of the Media have done. It also gives them a chance to deflect attention from the utter disgrace and disregard of democracy that is currently taking place in the mother of Parliaments.


#590

I’m not blaming the police for anything and there’s a fine line to tread. I was pointing out that there was a little more than “heckling” going on, in close quarters, which has caused distress. Considering the history of violence against MPs and journalists, I wouldn’t find it surprising if someone being subjected to close-quarters abuse (like Owen Jones and Anna Soubry, for example, have recently experienced) was indeed alarmed and worried for their personal safety. And surely an ongoing, targeted, and defamatory campaign could be deemed harassment.

I don’t think it’s unfair to ask to police to consider what is acceptable within the law and decide how it should be applied.


#591

And why is that not ok? A number of constituencies voted remain, surely it is those MP’s responsibility to represent the people who voted for them? Do the 48% who voted remain no longer deserve parliamentary representation as they were on the losing side of a non-binding referendum?

Beyond that do you seriously think that Nigel Farage and his cronies would have gone off quietly into the night if the result had been reversed? I find that exceptionally hard to believe.

We subscribe to the ‘trustee’ model of representation in the UK, perhaps if you don’t like it you should toddle off to France with those gilets jaunes you speak so highly of?


#592

While I get your point the MP in question is from a leave constituency.


#593

So you say you have not blamed the Police …

That seems like blame for not doing anything to me?
Anna Soubry and Owen Jones have been extremely abusive when talking about leave voters calling them stupid, xenophobic, elderly losers who did not know what they are doing. They have abused these people with the protection of Parliament and newspaper articles respectively. Whey should they get extra protection when they meet the people they abused?
As I said before the MPs removed their own protection in Session Orders. They need to place a new law on the Statue to protect MPs which the Police will enforce. The Police already provide protection. Parliament is the most heavily protected building in Britain. Do these people want armed guards everywhere they go?


#594

No, that was a statement of what happened.

You’ll note further up I mentioned the accosting of JRM and his family at his home - I’m not making this a partisan issue, but you and Teflon are.

And I’m not saying that Soubry and Jones have been right in some of the things they have said.

What I am saying, is that I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask the police to assess these situations and how they react to them. You’ve pointed out the relevant aspects of the public order laws and to me they are potentially relevant to the example scenarios given and worthy of interception to avoid potential escalation.

I wouldn’t expect anyone - regardless of position or status - to have to put up with these kinds of barrages of abuse.


#595

I’m not making this partisan, just answering the points you have raised and pointing out the hypocrisy and task dodging of the MPs. I have raised their politics, to point out their deficiencies, not to agree or disagree with them.
All three people have vociferously said things that others don’t agree with. They have all met people who want to shout their opinion louder than others. Should that be a crime? Parliament needs to decide, not the Police! Politicising the Police is heading down a very slippery slope!


#596

Bottom line though - the English yellow vests are a holes and politics is messed up.


#597

Having had first hand experience of both, I don’t disagree with that!!


#598

Whenever there has been a contentious matter people get upset with politicians and they may get a few choice names and this is no different. I remember Poll Tax, Iraq, anti-hunting among others that all found MPs coming in for some abuse and I don’t recall this cry baby attitude from them. The problem this time is MPs are very much in danger of usurping democracy.
As someone who voted leave and would again, again and again, I resent these pompous a/hole MPs saying I didn’t know what I was doing, among other things. I was fully aware of what I was voting for. I’d been waiting for this referendum since the late 80s/early 90s and I voted with no hesitation.


#599

Which lot of Yellow Vests, both the Right and Left had them on last week.


#600

One of their number hadn’t been murdered by someone opposing their views. Makes you take a different stance, as most humans would appreciate.


#601

FYI, that wasn’t my intention. Apologies.

@Teflon, why is this suddenly about you?

It doesn’t matter what has sparked this, the question is whether or not it is reasonable to allow anybody to be harassed and abused, potentially made to feel unsafe, while walking down the road or outside their home. Being accosted and followed by a mob is different to a static protest.

I understand the law is loose regarding interpretation, but public conduct has been gradually worsening and the line needs to be drawn somewhere before someone gets hurt again because someone got too angry and too emboldened.


#602

Ordinary people can’t be protected from random attacks in broad daylight.


#603

Anyway… We’re now far from laughter…


#604

It’s not about me, but I am one of those in the 52% who voted Leave and has been openly referred in quite openly as idiots, so them being called a few names in fair IMO.