What makes us stand out?

Cadets The Crew Room
9

When I joined at 13, I joined the ACO because a) one of my friends was in it, and b) it did what the Scouts did, but better, it did what the Army cadets did (ish), and it did some of what the SCC did (ish).

Now?

I’ve got a 15yo daughter, she’s gone up through Rainbows, Brownies and now Guides. Up until 5(?) years ago I’d have happily advised her to ditch the Guides for the ATC. Not anymore… My two younger kids are in Rainbows and Brownies - and while it’s true to say that they won’t be in the running to have the kind of experiences that the ACO can offer it’s cadets, the chances now of an individual cadet actually getting one, or two, or three of those different experiences during their cadet career are pretty minimal, but they will still be expected to take part in an academic syllabus they have little interest in, and given the quality of teaching these days, simply don’t need.

I was a cadet from 89-92: I went to 3 UK annual camps, two Germany camps, did a gliding scholarship, probably had 50 (five zero) hours of powered flight, 20 or so weekends away, 10 days sailing in the Channel with the LSP, and four or five weeks of other camps, as well as all the DofE stuff. I was in no way exceptional in my wing or my Sqn - everyone I knew went to camp every year, half the NCO’s on my Sqn had done Germany camps.

I would put good money on there being less than a handful of cadets in the entire ATC who’ve done what I was given the opportunity to do. It now compares averagely with the Scouts, just with a load more rubbish.

We no longer stand out.

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10

I couldn’t answer the original posters question as Air Cadets is all I know. I don’t have any friends who were Army, Sea Cadets or Scouts etc.

I know we don’t have flying or gliding like we once had but we keep our cadets busy with various activities that we didn’t do back in my day. We have a fair bit of shooting but it’s a struggle at times to get bodies interested.

When we do get new cadets with parents we are open about the lack of flying and gliding but we highlight everything else we do. Our parents are more than happy with all their kids get up to.

11

@DontCallMeSir I think we all really do is keep cadets busy in the hope it’ll be enough to keep them in, while we’re waiting for something really good to come along. But these are few and far between and cadets or more correctly their parents aren’t stupid.
We used to shoot .22s at least once a month, full bore on an Army range that was about 15 miles away every 3-4 months, camping a couple of times during the summer, 2-3 flying details and 1-2 gliding details a year and other things that kept us busy enough. We didn’t have to rely on courses to do “progressive training” we didn’t have a plethora of badges to collect. We had progressive training but it was just doing things at the squadron on parade nights, not going to the squadron or somewhere else for all or part of a weekend to do it. There was no hint of compulsion, like there is now, “you’ve done this and to get the next badge or promotion you have to do this” and being judged badly if you don’t. This applied to staff and cadets.

When I was a cadet the highlight in many ways was annual camp, 15-20 cadets from 4 or 5 sqns each, from across the Wing (not as seems to happen now area) coming together and seeing the RAF up close and doing all sorts of things. Unlike now where if you are lucky you get ½ dozen places and maybe a few more on one of the new camps.

The mum of lad who was a cadet when I was a WO asked me what had happened to the ATC as it was rubbish when she compared it to what her son did. He’d told his niece all about the ATC and what he did and now coming up to her third year in, hadn’t been on a camp as there were only a few places and they coincided with family holidays and not been flying or gliding. She’d shot air rifle but she’d been doing that with her uncle for a few years anyway. She’s got some badges, but the squadron she’s on said she had to do her class badges at home on the computer and could use whatever books she wanted. She’s starting year 10 and as her nan said she’s not the best academically and her mum is concerned and if the ATC doesn’t start living up to her brother’s talk, she’ll be taking her out of the ATC. As her nan said she can buy her flying and all the other things for her birthday. She said it’d be a shame but the ATC is a diseased shadow of what it was and her son feels guilty for almost pushing his niece into it. His children are not old enough and doing Cubs Brownies but he won’t suggesting they join the ATC. I can see more like this happening, fathers, mothers, uncles, aunts and even grandparents all former cadets talking positively to their offspring about the experience they had and then finding it is light years away from that and not in a good way.

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12

it is what i enjoy and know.

i’ve been kicking around for 20 years in the organisation, i’ve been doing it longer than I haven’t if that makes sense? (ie more than 50% of my life I’ve been involved with the ATC)

Having started as a teenager i thoroughly enjoyed myself, when it came to aging out i enjoyed it too much to simply walk away as many of my friends did, and had already been deemed medically unfit for any Military service, and so thrilled when i was invited to be a staff member.

in my time i have picked up a few qualifications, some of them (potentially) useful in civilian life (BEL, FAAW, D1) but the biggest draw for me has to be the very many friends I have made along the way, many CFAVs are “colleagues”, but a good number are friends.

I have been to at least 6 weddings of CFAVs, at least 4 stag dos (and invited to many more), attended 2 funerals of CFAVs, i have been to towns and cities i simply wouldn’t otherwise visit to meet up with friends made on camps and courses.
At my own wedding of the 6 tables, two of those were my friends and both had CFAVs seated on them.

why do i stay?
i enjoy it.
i enjoy teaching, instructing and passing on my knowledge and experience to Cadets, some of that knowledge they can’t get so readily elsewhere.
I enjoy seeing that Cadet’s face split in two when something great happens, be it their first flight, when they find out they passed a WHT, or another experience that smile and often “thanks Sir” reminds me I am making a difference.
the Cadets seem to like me and how I get involved; they are not put off by the events i organise and coordinate, be that a day trip to an airshow or aviation museum or a day walk practising map reading skills all typically well attended and often “when are we doing this again sir?”

i enjoying spending my time with those who have a shared interest, and as some of those are Cadets I enjoy the fact that they can learn from me.

to ask the opposite question, why don’t i leave?
I would miss it.
i would have to do something else as i don’t like sitting still. I’d end up joining the scouts or a local gliding club or something to get that same kick.
if i did nothing i would probably end up putting on weight as i sat in front of the idiot box like a couch potato each evening.

critically i wouldn’t see my friends as often, i am sure we all know Staff who have taken a break, stepped back a bit, or left completely who we don’t see anymore and are left with updates on Facebook to find out how they are doing, what their bank holiday plans are (were) and how the kids are getting on.

I attend RIAT year after year and have definitely made friends for life. Some are in the next County/Wing to me, others the opposite ends of the Country, for many Facebook is the way to stay in touch, while the odd few the effort is made to find the excuse to meet up, more often than not most each July we get together again and it is like the last 11 months apart was 11 hours.

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13

This is a key phrase and why people just keep doing the same old, same old.
It would be difficult in some ways to go somewhere else and start from scratch after such a long time in the ATC. People I know who got made redundant in the 00s started new jobs in their late 40s after working somewhere for 20+ years say they found it difficult to find their feet in a new job and several had 2 or more jobs before settling.

I’m looking more and more at the door now, there are now more people I know who have left the ATC that I get on with and see than are in the ATC. The majority now are similar ages to or younger than our children and many I knew as cadets, and while we may have the ATC as common link, I don’t enjoy socialising with them like I do / did my peers. I go out with my son for beer because he’s my son and father and son should do things, but I don’t go out with my son and his mates as that would be weird.

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Don’t let us stop you.

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15

I claim my Prize for outing RC (LASER)

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16

I’m sure they feel the same way and are glad when you leave them alone.

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Eh? Me or Teflon?

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The problem is apart from the ATC I don’t have the same life experiences etc that when you speak with or out with people around the same age. When I was there age I didn’t enjoy socialising with the staff who are my age now and I doubt they enjoyed being with us youngsters. I don’t know if you have kids, but would you want to go out with them and a group of their mates? Same thing in the ATC. Mind you a lot of the youngsters in our Wing seem to eat, sleep and defecate Air Cadets, which makes them even less appealing to socialise with.

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Generally speaking, we mix pretty well across the generations. It’s certain personalities - not age brackets - that don’t gel.

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it is interesting, last night my wife and i went to friends for a BBQ. I know them through the ATC and who are old enough to be my parents (they are 10 years younger than my parents, but they could be and not even teenage years either).

I have no issues socialising with Staff of any age, perhaps I am an interesting enough person to have more than than ATC to talk about (or in Teflon’s case, moan about). At my previous Squadron i would be regularly seen in the local public house after parade. We had the local Squadron Staff and Staff of two other out of town units (which included me) who lived in town meet at the pub, we had a vast mix of ages from 50s to brand new CIs from 018 Cadets.

it wouldn’t be unusual for those same friends to meet up for a BBQ, or birthday party, we even did a few curry nights or similar.

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21

All the opportunities, you could say that it’s not just about drill and flying, we do other stuff too. like AT camps, courses like JL and QAIC, cam and concealment, charity work …

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I’m not sure I’d describe drill as an opportunity…

I rather wonder if anyone would go to the drill & ceremonial camps if there was anything else to go on.

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There is other opportunities and people certainly do turn down other opportunities to attend D&C.

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JL or QUAIC or drill are hardly the sort of thing to get a year 8s juices flowing. Remembering that’s the age group we are trying to attract.

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@bp05 Firstly welcome to ACC.

In my opinion, the key to recruitment is a solid Parade Evening Program with variety, so that you are not doing classifications every evening.

Once you get your recruits in, get them First Class ASAP, that way they can integrate with the Sqn and have access to everything, if First Class drags on you are more likely to lose them.

In addition to your Sqn Nights, try to keep things happening on the weekend, even if your staff can’t organise it, get them to harrass those that can (I’m fully shooting qual’d and would happily run an activity where asked if there was demand)

Remind your staff that even if they can;t go / aren’t interested you might still be and your parents may be prepared to take you to the activity or a local sqn that does have transport.

My one stand out as a cadets, was the friendships I made from doing all the activities, be it a camp, shooting or competition day.

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26

The irony is that you clearly are in for the same reason unless I’m missing something.

I don’t think I have ever seen something positive come from your posts. The most recent being the potential recruit who you actively tried to discourage from joining.

This organisation is suffering and it has downfalls, however I’d bet a good wedge on that partly being because of attitudes like yours.

Try thinking positively for a change and maybe try some reflecting, maybe you can help change the things that irritate you so much…

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27

Can I like that post multiple times?

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28

I don’t know, staff conferences and places where you meet, over the last few years the general tone wrt the Air Cadets has not been positive. Our flying / gliding officer in 2015 got to the dias said good morning, thank you and sat down again as there was nothing to say, which got the most applause of the day. In my long time as a unit commander staff conferences have all been the same, Wing Staff and invited guests talk in very generalistic terms but we as squadron staff are only interested in how this translates at squadron level. and these can’t or won’t be answered.
When we talk it’s about family, holidays and similar avoiding ATC stuff as it’s too depressing.

I used to eulogise about the ATC and bore people stupid with all the good stuff the kids could and did do. The people I work with and have known me for many years have commented on the change. I would actively encourage people to let their offspring, grandchildren, nephews/nieces join as it was IMO the best youth organisation with unique opportunities. But now I can’t do that with any honesty as it is a bare-faced lie. My wife has seen the change in how I speak about it.

A defining moment was when a bloke I knew as a cadet (he joined when I was a CWO - he lived ‘round the corner’ and had heard cadets doing drill) turned up one night. His eldest was coming up the right age. We chatted about the old days and I said camps weren’t as they were and shooting had taken a knock, but flying and gliding were still good (this Jan 2013). His son joined in the March. I a few months later I sent letters home explaining that we will lose AEF (5) for a few months while they move airfields and a few months later that we wouldn’t have gliding for a few months. I sent further letters home in explaining that we won’t have flying or gliding until late 2016 / early 2017 at the earliest. My old cadet mate came and asked WTF was going on, I couldn’t answer as we were being told little or nothing. He’d left the RAF in IIRC 2004 as it was becoming a turd fest and not what he’d joined 15 years earlier. By this time his son was in year 11 and as we spoke I said I was conservative with the dates as that was what in late 2015 what we’d been told, but I didn’t see anything happening and us getting flying/gliding until 2018 at the very earliest. A few weeks later he came in with his son to leave. He thanked me for what we’d done but with his exams looming they were more important. His son had got his Bronze DofE and just starting his Silver which he was going to carry on at school, I saw a report earlier in the year that he’d got his Gold, so I thought something good had come of it. But as my old mate said, not much point being in the Air Cadets if they are not going to fly, which is why he’d joined in the early 80s being an aircraft nut and still is going to air shows and why he wanted to and did join the RAF.