What do you think the ATC/CCF(RAF)/RAFAC will be like in the next 50 years? What are your predictions?

Cadets The Crew Room
101

That’s a bit extreme and cynical even for me in the mood I’m currently in. I wouldn’t say they don’t care, but I don’t think they appreciate the situation and therefore make misguided attempts to rectify the wrong priorities.

or activities. I can’t help but feel that there’s a longstanding fear of too much self-sufficiency wearing thin the RAF’s willingness to continue to support us, when the reality is that the RAF support has dwindled to very little provision in relation specifically to practical delivery of our activities and training and so we’re left to suffer due to a lack of impetus at the top.

And something I meant to cover off before but forgot:

I’m not really calling for a formal policy that sets out any “you musts”, just a strategy to target areas of weakness based on local assessments, with a dynamic development model for incremental improvement of identified priorities that aspires to move towards the “everything available to everyone” model.

These thoughts stemmed from the media thread when I realised not only do we not have a beneficial national media strategy or support, but we can’t because of how much of a postcode lottery everything is.

102

Can i join you in Nirvana…this sounds ideal! (although i cant help thinking about the amount of admin needed…)

103

Forgive me if this covered in the subsequent posts but I’ve only skimmed read,

I think this is a wider issue & is the failure of the mission command model of leadership.

Cdrs give intent & then the people under you make it happen. But in reality that can only occur if people know what they are doing & if someone somewhere actually has to do something.

It is the old joke about how an officer digs a trench (he says -Sgt dig me a trench)

What is missing is that questioning - what do you want the trench for? Why are you needing the trench to be dug? What do you want the trench to achieve? What are the consequences of not digging the trench or meeting the specs.

Without these questions you get a culture of “magic wand thinking” the CO wants this to happen & poof the COs request is granted.

Ironically this is something that is less of an issue within air cadet volunteer world than the regular military. The air cadet world is too questioning & & less tolerant of command failings than the regular military. It’s a case of the castle guards out of Monty Python & the holy grail vs the “SIR YES SIR” of full metal jacket.

It is not just individual intent that is needed but also the organisation context along with the technical competence. Otherwise you just get a form of feudalism where you just work to further the interests of the person above you & not the wider organisation.

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104

Down in the doldrums, I’d agree with this. But we are faced with paid leadership who can’t react to such questioning and what they consider insubordination and a volunteer leadership who mirror that and/or are unwilling to provide or support the challenge as the authority of their position should grant through indoctrination or apathy.

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105

As we seem to be moving away from the RAF (less flying, no real interest in AC Rec/Modelling etc.) I can see a time when the Org is just there for the purpose of having a ‘blue’ cadet force, to be wheeled out for certain occasions…ASTRA has confirmed that the RAF has not given RAFAC the focus it needs so will be intersting to see the next steps…

106

I tremble :grimacing:

107

I think we are already there in terms of the RAF’s view of us as, “the light blue footprint” which has been a phrase openly used to describe us for at least a dozen years. It is a sad state that for 99% of the UK the only “RAF” they see is 12-20 year olds in an RAF affiliated youth group and despite this the RAF does sfa for us.
At the point “light blue footprint” was first used all of the traditional activities were happening and other things without too much interference. As time has gone on the activities have decreased/vanished and the interference has increased, some activities have gone as the RAF lost its will/desire to deliver; CFAV have left or when it comes to requal time not bothered. What I find interesting is that water sports has gained greater traction and in more recent years archery. The main reason I feel is because they sit outside the reliance on the RAF / HQAC for the training and qualifications. They may say you need to have this or that ‘ticket’, but the people who do it, especially water sports have had a personal interest for years, are members of a club and work through the levels independently. I don’t many, if any, who just do it within the Air Cadets in toto. A lot of walkers do their own thing.

One of the things holding us back so to speak are those in the Air Cadets who get far too excited about uniform, rank and the status it infers; personal and that of others. I look at those “in charge” like I do managers at work and give the same level of respect. Although the Wg Cdr said the disdain I displayed towards our RC at a staff conference was picked up on. All I did was ask questions and when he failed to answer after bluff and bluster, rephrased it and asked it again, which what I do to everyone. I said he can’t expect all people to think he’s wonderful.

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108

The RAF does less for a number of factors, such as since 9/11 they have been on continual operations and deployments, bases have closed or amalgamated, budgets have been cut, force numbers reduced to doing more with less. ExRAF want little or more prescisely nothing to do with the RAFAC, regular serving also want little with some exceptions @Horriblelittletechie are tired and want time with their families, constantly on exercise or deployment.

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109

I can echo this.
When I had my cushy workshop job, perma days, I could devote some time to cadets. It was enjoyable. And for my own personal development… It contributed to being promoted.

The vast majority of technicians are employed on squadrons. As I am now. I work week of days, week of nights. The Friday in days is until finish. Which has been 2100 before after a 0700, followed by weekend work if required.

I now have a son. A son who was very nearly taken from my wife and I in his first few months of life.

In the year since he’s come home, I’ve had a total of 200 days away, be that on courses, Shader or other stuff.

Half the year, I’m on nights, unable to attend the squadron. The other half I’m on days. Having the responsibility of being an NCO, which means I’m often last out.

Do I want to spend my evenings looking after someone else’s children after I’ve spend over 50hrs away from mine? Absolutely not.

I do try and make time, because I genuinely enjoy it. The cadets enjoy it. I bring a perspective that our squadron staff don’t have.

But as to why many don’t do it? We are getting fragged. My squadron has 60 empty and gapped posts. Of which half of those are NCOs. We simply do not have the manpower for people to take the leave they want and in many cases, need.
I am worked from 0730 until 1630 most days on pure physical work. Next shift is in at 1630, I then have hand over and paperwork completion to do.
You then factor cadets marching through camp in the mornings to breakfast. Screaming cadence as they march through accommodation sites. I can tell from my own history in SLA, when you’re trying to sleep and cadets are marching through, waking you up… And then clogging lines in the mess when you need to eat and get back to squadron. It doesn’t foster a positive look from the serviceman’s side.
I’ve had adult SNCOs tell me to do things on station such as make way for cadets in the mess, when I was a phase three trainee (SAC with over 4yrs service at this point), I was shouted at by adult staff for not marching correctly. Likewise when on guard at RIAT I’ve been “chastised” by (then) VRT officers for not letting them through without ID.

Regulars generally have a dim view of cadets for many reasons. Some warranted, most not.
My biggest complaint I have heard is actually saluting cadet officers. (This obviously comes from rankers).

What stops me now is just exhaustion after a working week, looking at spending extra hours in uniform doesn’t appeal. I want time with my family, not to be (in no way derogatory is this meant) a babysitter.

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110

Given the current state of the RAF, I’d argue that’s a good thing!

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111

I actually agree with the first quote & think the organisation has forgotten what the purpose of rank is & what it actually means in practice.

There is an obsession with person centred Hero Style leadership rather than anything more collective.

Rank is designed that when we meet someone for the first time, rank indicates their general experience, knowledge & position.

Too often though it is treated as a form of feudalism that the higher rank you are the more important you are or some sort of god or parent without the normal human flaws.

The other side of the coin is the crab bucket mentality of “anyone higher than me doesn’t know what they are doing”, you see this ego amongst some of SNCOs regarding officers as a form of “chip-on-the-shoulder classism”. Both are symptoms of the same cause - over emphasis on rank & not the person.

I don’t know how you treat your managers at work but you refer to being distainful of your RC so I’m assuming that is your default position to your managers.

However what Rank actually is to us in the ATC is not just an indicator of knowledge & experience but also the level of responsibility someone has volunteered for. No one is above the rank of Fg Off but it’s unfair to write someone off just because they are higher than that rank. They are not Gods, they will make mistakes but they do (or should?) work at the level of rank they have volunteered for. If they cannot make that commitment at the level anymore then they should be able to step down without stigma, something that the organisation makes very hard with its obsession over rank.

I know it is fun sometimes to poke holes in the egos & bluster of people in the organisation (done it myself a few times) but when doing so there is the need to avoid projection of individual views (which may well be wrong) & getting addicted to the ego-boost of being the rebel or the trouble-maker.

More satisfying is the subtler art of constructive dissent, acknowledging those above have a hard job but you will “be proactive to help them to achieve what they need to do in their own individual way”. It’s a more positive sympathetic outlook, can bring good results to the organisation, healthy for the individual & a more satisfying way to disrupt & challenge - a stiletto dagger rather than a blunt instrument. It also breaks the “hero” leadership style that the ATC has adopted by accident by re-emphasise on the “acting” part of the ranks in a supportive way that takes a little of the pressure off.

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112

You mean to tell me a tiny bit of cloth on my shoulder means o am importanter than someone else?

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113

To those who still believe in magic & fairy dust & Father Christmas then yes :smile:

I would pull out the power of illusion metaphor from game of thrones but I over use that here :slight_smile: (I do use it in cadet NCO training when teaching personal & organisational spheres of influence).

Having said that if you’ve read hogfather by Terry prachett, then you may agree that humans need these illusions so that they can believe in other abstract illusions such as truth, justice & freedom :wink:

Seriously, I suspect you are more important to those you work with on a day to day basis than any AVM or politicians.

114

Still probably viewed with the same disdain as them mind… I still have the idealised view of what serving is. And unfortunately the poor idiots work for me and have to deal with my work ethic… :sweat_smile:

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115

That is disheartening, I always make a point of letting Regs go ahead of us when at the Mess. We are guests where you live and work.

I also make a point of ordering them to not bellow cadence anywhere but on the parade ground. If the Cadets are behaving as they should be, a normal spoken voice is more than enough.

As in saluting at all? Or some CFAV pulling them up for not? Dick move if that is the case. I try to not put myself in the position where any ranker would need to, but when it is unavoidable I always return it and it reinforces to the Cadets where they are and that respect cuts both ways.

116

  1. Yes, I know it’s not the majority. Unfortunately tnose few do ruin it. Especially when you have 20mins to eat and get back to the flightline.

  2. It’s more the ranker saluting the cadet officer in the first place. There are a great many that view RAFAC officers as glorified scout leaders, and find the idea of saluting wrong anyway.
    I’ve been personally shouted at for missing a VRT officer as I came out the mess without my hat on many moons ago. And I have had some that seem to have gone out of their way for it… But that could be a perception thing.

You can’t win with those who look down on the CF commission. They won’t be pleased either way.

I make a point of adhering to it when I’m on squadron, reinforces who the OC is. I in no way wish to undermine authority.

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117

Fair one, shame they feel that way - not our rules, but they are welcome to their opinion :man_shrugging:

118

You’ll always get your bad eggs.

You find it’s mostly junior ranks, Cpl and below. Mainly AS1s now. Not long in the tooth of life experience.
Sgts and above generally involve themselves in the politics of it all so are astute enough to do the right thing.

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119

Though, you have to get the balance right…

If you’ve got 40 cadets to push through on an annual camp and they’re due on their next section visit immediately after lunch, being 15 minutes late because you let every regular who appeared at the same time go in front is not an option either.
That lateness impacts on the work of the section being visited, and the one after that when the first session runs over, and the one after that, as the whole issue snowballs…

I totally understand the frustration when there are 40 extra people in the JRM, but it’s not as though the cadets are all off duty and can take a leisurely meal at any time they choose.
Everyone there has time constraints.

120

Maybe let’s stick to the idea of the RAFAC in 50 years rather than current sporadic issues?

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