AP 1358 for the RAF states that personal are encouraged to wear uniform to and from work as well as on public transport when travelling from leave… I never did it as I would get out of my uniform ASAP after finishing work however… If the risk was as bad as you say it would be back to the way things were in the 90’s and before
with the greatest of respect, this is the same RAF which spent £9 billion putting new wings on 9 50 year old airframes and then, upon discovering that they only fitted one airframe, and that none of the ‘new’ airframes would ever be certified as air-worthy, turned the whole lot in to the worlds most expensive razor blades?
the same RAF who overturned a Board of Enquiry report into a fatal crash and blamed the crew, not only despite there not being anything like enough evidence to do so, but in direct contravention of standing RAF procedures?
the same RAF who have so far spent £420 million on 8 Chinooks, which, after 13 years, have still not been certified for operational service?
the same RAF who who made it a disciplinary offence for RAF engineering officers to refuse to certify an aircraft as being airworthy when ordered to do so, even when that refusal was fully in line with current RAF airworthiness regulations?
the same RAF who bought 3 RC-135W’s without working out how, or if, they could certify them as airworthy, and after receiving the first one, had it sit on the ground for 6 months before the Secretary of State got his pen out and signed it of?
would you employ this organisation to plumb in a washing machine?
if this organisation, with its history of not only failure, but venal hypocracy, breaking its own rules and not just ignoring, but sidelining its own SME’s, told you to stick your head in a gas oven, would you do it?
Venting?
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[quote=“juliet mike” post=19241]Venting?
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Just a bit
Just to pick up one point which two of you have made which is idiotic.
Terrorists don’t care what camo pattern we wear.
They would see a cadet in DPM and think exactly the same as they would if they were in MTP. To 99% of the world Camo (of any pattern) + military badges +(possibly) military headress = soldier.
The pattern would not be something they take into account, the sort of person who takes a machete to a man’s neck after running him over isn’t exactly thinking rationally.
completely agree!
the public are equally as ignorant also.
a uniform is all that is ever seen and with it what that uniform represents.
the subtly between the ATC and RAF (even with the DPM and MTP) is of equal merit to that of regiments and battalions in the army, the odd badge here, beret badge/colour there makes all the difference but to the uneducated it is still a uniform
Exactly.
DPM is now essentially a de-facto cadet/CFAV-only uniform, but I’m fairly sure that most people who see me in DPM when there isn’t a gaggle of small people also wearing it near me have no idea that I’m not a regular.
with the greatest of respect, this is the same RAF which spent £9 billion putting new wings on 9 50 year old airframes and then, upon discovering that they only fitted one airframe, and that none of the ‘new’ airframes would ever be certified as air-worthy, turned the whole lot in to the worlds most expensive razor blades?
the same RAF who overturned a Board of Enquiry report into a fatal crash and blamed the crew, not only despite there not being anything like enough evidence to do so, but in direct contravention of standing RAF procedures?
the same RAF who have so far spent £420 million on 8 Chinooks, which, after 13 years, have still not been certified for operational service?
the same RAF who who made it a disciplinary offence for RAF engineering officers to refuse to certify an aircraft as being airworthy when ordered to do so, even when that refusal was fully in line with current RAF airworthiness regulations?
the same RAF who bought 3 RC-135W’s without working out how, or if, they could certify them as airworthy, and after receiving the first one, had it sit on the ground for 6 months before the Secretary of State got his pen out and signed it of?
would you employ this organisation to plumb in a washing machine?
if this organisation, with its history of not only failure, but venal hypocracy, breaking its own rules and not just ignoring, but sidelining its own SME’s, told you to stick your head in a gas oven, would you do it?[/quote]
Sounds like you have a real issue with the RAF…
He does have a point - & the report into the Tornado mid-air doesn’t exactly make MOD smell of roses considering the aspects of the delayed/cancelled/reinstated/delayed collision warning system:
One thing the Forces have always been strict on is Persec which this comes under
Not quite. Since Op Banner ended, the forces have become less strict in this regard. In recent years wearing uniform in public has been encouraged in order to raise the profile of the armed forces. Some quarters (the old fashioned ones mostly) might have resisted but that is that national direction.
i could have used any of the services - all three have histories of catastrophic failures of leadership, judgement, and policy which have killed people, and then killed people again, and then again. and all of them have histories of attempting to cover up the relationship between those failures of leadership, judgement and policy, and the deaths they caused.
for how long was PIRA targetting service members ‘on home turf’ before the MOD brought in the rules about not travelling to work in service clothing - and how many service members were injured/seriously injured/killed before the MOD changed the rules?
do you believe that there is a political requirement for the MOD to say there is no threat?
do you fancy being the first one?
quite simply, if you put any faith whatsoever in a risk assessment - particularly one that has political ramifications - that the RAF, or Army, or RN have done that impinges on your health then you’re a fool.
You could use that argument for a lot of things, but I see no reason to hide in the corner rocking backwards and forwards in the corner and muttering “can’t sleep, gonna die”. Contrary to what the Daily Fail would have you believe, there is not a terrorist hiding behind every corner waiting to crucify you for wearing a military uniform.
Not quite. Since Op Banner ended, the forces have become less strict in this regard. In recent years wearing uniform in public has been encouraged in order to raise the profile of the armed forces. Some quarters (the old fashioned ones mostly) might have resisted but that is that national direction.[/quote]
No.
No.
No.
PERSEC is always hammered home. Maybe not with the pink and fluffy side of the Forces…
Op Banner may have “ended” but its still kicking off over there its just not what the media want to report on.
It doesnt mean suddenly everyones going to hug each other and throw flowers instead of molotov cocktails.
If anything ins this facebook generation, people need to be more vigilant! Young squaddies posting all kinds of crap on facebook. Its all too easy to find out someones routines, places they frequent, when they are away. There is a load of posters and flyers all around every MOD base saying this.
Bad people still want to do bad things to people in the forces. Lee Rigby is prime but not the only example of this.
British Passports from lads in birmingham were found among dead enemy. This whole middle east situation and recruitment videos. Its madness not to take some precautions.
Angus seems to be the only person that gets this.
[quote=“talon” post=19362][quote=“angus” post=19361]
do you fancy being the first one?
[/quote]
You could use that argument for a lot of things, but I see no reason to hide in the corner rocking backwards and forwards in the corner and muttering “can’t sleep, gonna die”. Contrary to what the Daily Fail would have you believe, there is not a terrorist hiding behind every corner waiting to crucify you for wearing a military uniform.[/quote]
Noone is saying that you absolute toilet.
Whats being said is to take precautions to not draw unnessasary attention to yourself.
[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=19363]
No.
No.
No.
PERSEC is always hammered home. Maybe not with the pink and fluffy side of the Forces…
Op Banner may have “ended” but its still kicking off over there its just not what the media want to report on.
It doesnt mean suddenly everyones going to hug each other and throw flowers instead of molotov cocktails.
If anything ins this facebook generation, people need to be more vigilant! Young squaddies posting all kinds of crap on facebook. Its all too easy to find out someones routines, places they frequent, when they are away. There is a load of posters and flyers all around every MOD base saying this.
Bad people still want to do bad things to people in the forces. Lee Rigby is prime but not the only example of this.
Passports from lads in birmingham were found among dead enemy. This whole middle east situation and recruitment videos. Its madness not to take some precautions.
Angus seems to be the only person that gets this.[/quote]
No, that is not the same thing. Travelling to and from work in uniform is different to going on facebook and saying “I am a soldier and I work at XXX. Here are some pictures of me sitting on a nuclear weapon”.
Oh, so we are reverting to insults now? That is good to know.
I have travelled to and from my cadet unit in uniform for years. If I walk through town (to a cadet activity), I am happy to do so in uniform. I have never had any reason to fear for my life.
to be crass, neither did Lee Rigby, and neither did that halfwit (Rifles if i recall correctly…) who hooked up with a girl in Belfast (via facebook, of course…) for the weekend and ended up driving around with a crude, but viable bomb under his car.
if you get pinged by someone who really doesn’t like British uniforms you’re pretty unlikely to get approached in the street - though if i recall correctly the RAF banned its people from wearing uniform in Peterborough in 2008 after some Airmen got dogs abuse walking through the town - the much more concerning, for me, issue is having a uniform associated with a home address: having dogs eggs thrown at your windows when your kids are asleep is pretty frightening, and once you’ve been pinged you can’t ‘un-ping’ yourself regardless of whether you continue to wear uniform or not - unless you move house…
personally, i take the long view - i have no interest in following this weeks politically convenient fad or fashion because i know that things change, and its all very well for the MOD to encourage people to wear their uniforms this week, but if next week they change their minds i’d be stuck outside the wire with every nutcase and wannabe knowing that a uniform lives at number 54. no thanks.
we lived ‘off-pad’ for the last 6 years of my Army career, and i made it my business to be as discreet as possible (an old lesson re-inforced by hearing Brummie and Manc accents on ICOM chatter in Afghanistan), i’m pretty sure i left/arrived at the house in uniform less than a handful of times in the time i lived there, and my wife is pretty sure than only one of our dozen or so neighbours twigged what i did for a living.
its also worth noting of course that the vast majority of those the advice is for live on SFA or on the block, they are surrounded by other people who (should) know to look out for trouble, and they will either be surrounded by barbed wire and people carrying rifles, or recieve regular patrols from the local or MOD/Military filth - FS(ATC) John Bloggs of 14 Acacia Avenue, Leamington Spa has none of that protection, and unlike his regular counterpart will receive no help if he thinks he has a problem with kids vandalising his car or throwing ■■■■ at his house. to some degree, they can afford to make mistakes because if the problem gets bad the RAF/Army/RN will put him and his kids in a taxi, their possessions in a lorry and post him to Akrotiri/Dhekelia or Lossiemouth or Catterick. FS Bloggs on the other hand, he’s on his own…
Ahhhhhhh that explains it now. You are ex army! They teach you lot to be wary of anything except your pay packet. Bet you were a right laugh during the freedom of the borough parades.
[quote=“talon” post=19365][quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=19364]
Noone is saying that you absolute toilet.
[/quote]
Oh, so we are reverting to insults now? That is good to know.[/quote]
Of course, as we all know, Lee Rigby wasn’t wearing uniform.
I think it is only right for you to judge the situation in your own area. If you are living in an area where you are likely to get abuse or attacked, then fair enough, but I think in most towns in the UK (possibly excluding NI) you are pretty damn safe to wear uniform on your way to cadets.