It will if lots of people do not renew their commission in protest
Protest at what? Nothing practical is changing apart from the removal of being subject to the Air Force Act (a good thing?) and a change of lapel pins.
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Just getting precious about losing their membership of the RAF and âdowngradingâ the commission.
Iâd be as precious had they dragged SNCO/WO out of the ATC and into VR(T)
Whatever way we look at it, CFC is a debasement of the RAFVR(T) commission. The transition period will be interesting, as the ACO is going to have to operate a two tier system while current VR(T)s wait to retire or expire.
Even if itâs not said out loud, everyone is going know that Plt Off Blogs CFC is inferior to his Plt Off RAFVR(T) counterpart.
We have no idea how people will react but to dismiss the potential for people at all levels to say no thanks as being childish is not a good attitude to adopt and is like sticking your fingers in your ears, shutting your eyes and going la la la la la and hoping it all goes away.
Without a contingency for potential problems and not expecting problems is not a good way to live. We all have things at home âjust in caseâ.
Letâs imagine a scenario of say a Wg Cdr, 2 Sqn Ldrs, 5 WSO Flt Lts, 5 Sqn Cdrs and 10 sqn officers resigning their commissions or reverting to CIs. What would happen? How long would it take to recover?
OK unlikely but slot in whatever numbers you like to and itâs not a good position. A sqn losing their OC in normal circumstances (the only officer on the sqn) creates enough chaos in the system, as it can take ages to get someone else in.
So if HQAC havenât considered all the scenarios for this change, thatâs poor management. There were a few SNCOs who would have binned it if theyâd become VRT.
We DONâT know the full effect of the changes, we just hope that it wonât have any effect at the coalface. Remember a few years ago - knee jerk reaction from the army that Civilians canât move weapons and arms - result, Adult NCOs couldnât move arms or be escorts, only VR(T). Loads of range days etc were cancelled, cadet shooting lost and 4 VR(T) needed to due the most mundane tasks due to that change which was not full thought through.
I reiterate, we HOPE there will be no effect, but we donât KNOW until it goes through and some storeman / armourer / station commander / raf police flight etc come up with a piece of paper which says - âonly RAF Reserves can do XYZ, you are not that, therefore Iâm not giving XYZ permission to youâ
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I wonder how deeply RC(N) is involved with the project or it is just goes as far as badging 
It would be interesting to be able to see which work-strands are associated with the project.
Whatever way we look at it, CFC is a debasement of the RAFVR(T) commission.
Why? I donât think it is a debasement at all. I do think it is a number of individuals getting a little bit precious about their status with the RAF when the real issue should be assuring their continued status with cadets.
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I donât know, I extract the wee about the Cornflakes Packet Commission as much as any right thinking person - and of course the 3 day Sergeantâs course - but I can genuinely understand why even completely grounded, sensible VR(T) would get the hump over it.
It is saying that you just arenât worthy enough - that, assuming we are to believe the gossip, the work, the time, the sacrifice that thousands of VR(T) put into the ACO for the benefit of cadets is not worth the alleged hassle that a couple of loons have caused the Palace in spurious Royal petitions and the agro that causes HQAC.
This is not about the saddoes who put their VR(T) rank in their chequebook or who try and book themselves into the mess when on holiday, this is about people whoâs commitment already hangs by a thread because of a mountain of paperwork, endless emails, rubbish leadership, everything being harder than it was last year and safe in the knowledge that it will be harder next year, people who already feel unvalued and barely tolerated - and then some HR genius thinks that taking away something that was always more symbol that reality, but which made people feel good about themselves while facing this wall of crap.
This isnât silver bullet in the Werewolf stuff, this is one more straw lobbed on the camels back stuff - and Iâm afraid Iâm convinced that decent, non-walty staff will decide that theyâve just had enough.
Again, its not how it effects the day to day stuff - because it doesnât - its the message that the change sends.
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I take this as the single only way to protect the organisation, otherwise the MoD/Gov/HMQ will start to look at the mounting paperwork from the choppers who feel they have a right to redress over their refused excessive travel claims and can the whole lot of us to a private model (air scouts, army scouts, dead scouts). I dont take this as a kick in the privates. I donât consider it a snub to my efforts or service. I see it as a practical way that we can all continue doing what we love, delivering that cadet experience, and a way that we can continue to do that into many future years. Iâm graced with the ability to see beyond my own rank stripe, seeminly iâm in a minority.
I think part of the difference between angusâs posts and Pruneâs is that there are (at least) two different standpoints. Some do still âloveâ doing what we do and some put up with a lot of the stuff because it does still benefit cadets and we still get something out of the organisation.
I certainly donât get out what I did 5/10/15yrs ago and that is fine, things change and I am OK with that. But the flip side is that it the pro/cons debate about whether accepting the responsibility of a commission as opposed to being a CI is becoming tighter and for some, myself included, this could well be another negative rather than anything positive.
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You are kidding yourself if you think that a change of name and T&C for the VRT is going to save the ATC. The ATC / ACO / RAF Air Cadets has been mismanaged for at least the last 7/8 years, if not much longer. In recent years we have had 2 CAC who seem to think you can treat adults like naughty children, (ref Cooperâs assertion that we have to have âordersâ as we canât follow âinstructionsâ), admin your way out of trouble and in our current CACâs case faffing around on social media makes things better, and, have failed to directly address the issues facing the Corps and delivery of the âcadet experienceâ, despite constantly trotting out the line of a âspecial relationshipâ with the RAF senior command. It is only the unrewarded sufferance and goodwill of several thousand volunteer staff that keeps the ATC going, lose that and the ATC will be lost.
Stopping a few hundred complaints (any less is not a problem) ainât gonna make any improvement to the cadet experience (it may solve a problem for the RAF), and, what is so special about HQAC / ACMB that they will be able to deal with the hundreds of complaints? They canât deal with day to day paperwork and fail to deliver on projects (or pointless, undeliverable things dreamt up to make it look like theyâre doing something) supposed to deliver the cadet experience, so giving them something else will just allow them to blame that for failure elsewhere. I can see it now âoh we havenât been able to do ⌠because we have been up to our necks with complaintsâ, this will be a godsend to the incapable. The ACMB have proved themselves incompetent over the last 10-15 years and have to be thankful they work in a place where they can play âdo you know who I amâ and hide behind a rank. Out here in the real world the people on these salaries displaying the lack of leadership, complacency and failure the ACMB are quite happy with, would have seen them âtaking up a position outside the concernâ. Iâve never really understood how being a senior officer in the RAF automatically makes you the best person to run a youth organisation. Given the new distance between the RAF and ATC, their RAF experience will be even less relevant than it is now.
I cannot believe that people who donât seem to identify with any of things that face people day to day and defend the decision makers, who are totally undefendable, are on a sqn in any capacity. Things mentioned by angus are the sorts of things we can identify with and are the reasons why people leave and or come out of uniform. But itâs alright the ACMB can continue to fail generations of cadets and not care about the people under their charge as long as they are able to grab the money and run.
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I like how you stitch various parts of other peopleâs discussions together to boost your own opinion on matters. However, yet again, I see through it. I think like GHE2 you should re evalute your position for the purpose of your own health (i.e. Leave). Or are you one of those people sacked who like to come on here and criticise the organisation because you didnât get your own way?
OK then explain how the change will âsave the ATCâ and how much more efficiently HQAC will deal with the hundreds of complaints coming in and still ensure that they are able to service the day to day side of the volunteer organisation. As it is weâre practically âscoutsâ anyway as the military side is becoming increasingly tenuous.
Iâve never heard of anyone complaining and Iâve been around long enough to have seen these or be aware of them. God knows people are quick to chat about everything and gossip about anything and if anyone had complained to HM The Queen as theyâd not got satisfaction ordinarily, youâd hear about it. The only things you might not hear about are inappropriate behaviour complaints, but all of the other trivia you would,
HQAC struggle to process a few hundred bits of paper which can only require a rubber stamp now, so add in these hundreds of complaints and staff will never get their VA, HTD and travel claims. And I canât see the assembled former RAF Officers being professionally competent to deal with them either, other than weâve said how it is now go away. Letâs face it you cannot say they have the necessary experience etc to run the ATC or if they have itâs not been very evident.
Because they are drowning under complaints which go past HQAC level to Service Complaints or royal level (not as many). When that happens the staff at HQAC have to do further work off the complainants allegations and produce reports. Further interviews etc. This cannot be done by Wing Staff.
So, when the final say becomes HQAC, no right of further appeal. End of. Paperwork filed. Next complaint. Move on. = time saved.
Anyone asked the RAF Club whatâs going to happen?
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No, but theyâre not going to turn away member subscriptions - especially after putting planning applications in for extensions.
If your answer to people not liking the loss of VR(T) is leave. I suspect many will leave.
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The process described is hardly dealing with it and as we will all be civilian and if people feel that aggrieved could take it outside, which will create more work than ever experienced through the old process and the potential to create a negative press.
I take it your preferred organisation is one where everyone is totally subservant and just accepts what we told to do and just walk at âthe heelâ and run around like idiots when they throw a stick or ball. While this may be the general military model, none of us are actually serving in the military ie itâs our day job and pays our bills. If this is what they would like then the answer is obvious.
I donât care what they call us and in fact being a âcivvie in uniformâ like SNCOs are described seems like a pretty good thing.
No-one said they had, so Iâve just written to the secretary of the RAF club to ask if the committee has discussed this or whether a rule change is needed.
Current rules state that for full membership you must hold or have held a commission in ââŚThe Royal Air Force Reserve and Volunteer Reserve (including VR(T) forces).â Nothing about other cadet commissions.