Volunteer Software Development Team - New Cadet Portal

[james_elliott]

@Virgil

Lurking forever and finally pulled in!

I think it is a great idea to utilise the wider skills of any CFAV willing to lend it. Yes development attracts good money so to do anything for free might seem mad and similarly yes many CFAVs generally do what we do to provide some sort of life balance against the day job. But If there is someone out there willing and able then more power to them.

@james_elliott I am going to presume that we work in the same field given your language and I know that if you work high enough up you know the challenges that face you in terms of finding the right person who can offset contractual obligations to their employer around their skill set, the requirement to do it for free (or use VA at the sacrifice of using it for their squadron/sections activities) and being able to get them to HQRAFAC when required - and that is before even getting to the nitty gritty of developing your agile MVP.

I don’t envy you the task, but wish you the best all the same!

Appreciate it, thank you!

@ccw34

@virgil I agree completely, and it would be interesting to see how a full software development project is managed in the voluntary sector when everyone(?) involved is volunteers, and so the budget/time restraints are very different than in the (non-commercial) industry I work in. I have actually done a lot of volunteer coding in the past (various websites for various organisations, Sqns, etc) and wouldn’t have been opposed to helping @james_elliott with this, but .NET is the one set of languages I have never used (if it had been java, python, php, perl, R, Matlab, any SQL dialect (including pl/sql, pl/python, etc…), graph databases etc etc etc then I could probably have been of more use!), and I was slightly put off by the more lengthy application process, more so than for most actual jobs I’ve had(!) - although I can understand why they’ve managed it like this.

It’s interesting for us as well. Resource wise, we are a very small team (which is why we are advertising) but coping within the restraints we have

[tmmorris]

For the avoidance of doubt, by the way, this is not a RAFAC project but an ATC one at the moment. So @virgil unless you are double-hatted it’s not going to affect you…

[Virgil]

Everyone in RAFAC got the email - I would not have been adverse to helping if I had the right knowledge (I don’t).

All one team and all that.

[james_elliott]

For the avoidance of doubt, by the way, this is not a RAFAC project but an ATC one at the moment. So @virgil unless you are double-hatted it’s not going to affect you…

It is accurate, at this stage, that Cadet Portal will not be available to CCF cadets.

At its heart, Cadet Portal relies on having SMS data to access and then display to the cadet user. If there is no SMS data, there won’t be much to display back to a typical CCF cadet whose data primarily lives on Westminster and other systems which are not connected to the SMS database (and I am not aware of any plans to change that situation in the near future - but very happy to be educated on this).

The decision making to change this resides at a level considerably further up the food chain than I can influence.

Very happy to discuss this further over email or on the phone, just PM me for my details if you wish.

[Bobthebuilder]

Some of us use SMS as well even if it means duplicating information

[james_elliott]

Some of us use SMS as well even if it means duplicating information

Yes, that is my understanding. We will be discussing this during the week and I will feed back as appropriate.

[solo12002]

Guys is there not something out there that some of the staff designed called squadron Box. Could this not be used

[james_elliott]

Guys is there not something out there that some of the staff designed called squadron Box. Could this not be used

This made a few of us chuckle this morning. Yes, SquadronBox and MySquadron are both examples of locally produced, unofficial web applications that offer something similar.

Neither are formally approved and are not connected to the SMS database.

The VDT membership is made up of those who built SqnBox and MySquadron. Once Cadet Portal is live, both sites will be phased out and shut down.

However, we have a lot of collective experience with SqnBox and MySquadron which has been invaluable and has helped us build Cadet Portal.

[MRAR]

I know a number of squadrons, including us, make use of TeamApp rather than the other two options. It has some useful features it would be nice to incorporate into the new system if possible.

[themajor]

TeamApp requires users to be 16+ if your team is based in the EU following GDPR… how are you getting round this or are the cadets just ticking the box?

[james_elliott]

@MRAR

I know a number of squadrons, including us, make use of TeamApp rather than the other two options. It has some useful features it would be nice to incorporate into the new system if possible.

I am aware of TeamApp and what it is able to do - if you have anything specific in terms of features that you would like us to consider, please drop me a PM or post here

@themajor is right, just like SqnBox and MySquadron, TeamApp is not an approved tool and I would advise caution.

[MRAR]

TeamApp requires users to be 16+ if your team is based in the EU following GDPR… how are you getting round this or are the cadets just ticking the box?

I’m not sure any of us were aware of that as we set it up way pre-GDPR. Will review and take appropriate steps.

I am aware of TeamApp and what it is able to do - if you have anything specific in terms of features that you would like us to consider, please drop me a PM or post here

The ability to send reminders is helpful as is sending bulletins to everyone via the ‘team news’ section. It’s also a good place to upload our training plan so the cadets have online access.

[tmmorris]

Also, CCFs need to see some positive benefits to using SMS and keeping the data updated; at the moment it’s all (unsuccessful) stick and no carrot; whereas WESTMINSTER has practical benefits (money, inspections etc.)

[Rumpole]

To be boring but practical …

It would be helpful if the Cadet Portal is to feature a privacy section that is a little more informed than Wing Commander Hewitt’ ’ ATC is all fine and if you don’t like it … you will have to go’.

Those of us with a wider experience of the subject realise that there are many graduations that warrant such a position as unrealistic (e.g. communication preferences or the right to retain control of sensitive data without being prejudiced against).

Again we have the reality that Civcom members are involved in processing personal data on behalf of the squadron and if requested to do so, must have a mechanism to co-operate with the basic rights of the individual - the right to be forgotten after leaving for example.

Will there be practical methods which can be accessed at Squadron and Civcom level (where most requests originate from) ? In GDPR terms it will be the first point of contact who receive the info who will be responsible to modification/update. It will be necessary for them to at least receive a confirmation that changes have been actioned.

Or is it total cadet control so that all their information is available to them through the portal and they can amend or change their preferences as they wish?

I know the thread isn’t for GDPR, but the premise of a Cadet Portal raises these very real questions and the organisation has been characteristically avoiding any engagement (probably for fear of discomfort as the rocks are lifted).

I would hate the efforts of volunteers to be met with a resounding “Oh … we never thought of that” after hours of work and no-one can say that there haven’t been many examples of that over the years.

Be good to have an understanding from this angle.

[Teflon]

I would hate the efforts of volunteers to be met with a resounding “Oh … we never thought of that” after hours of work and no-one can say that there haven’t been many examples of that over the years.

Absolutely. I was chatting to a bloke who was involved in the Adult NCO project in the early 00s, and when they got onto looking at age of cadets, they got hit with the Children’s Act and CRB as was, which apparently hadn’t been considered.

[james_elliott]

I cannot answer the majority of your post as it is significantly outside of the projects remit and way above my pay grade. How the requirements of the Data Protection Act (2018) and GDPR are implemented in the RAFAC is something I cannot comment on or have any control over.

Or is it total cadet control so that all their information is available to them through the portal and they can amend or change their preferences as they wish?

Initially, Cadet Portal will allow a cadet to view quite a large percentage of the data held on their SMS record. Post deployment of the Minimum Viable Product, the intention is to allow the cadet to edit/update their data as appropriate. Which checks and balances are implemented for when a cadet does update a piece of information is still very much being discussed.

For instance, should a cadet be permitted to change their rank on their record without that change being approved somehow? All of this kind of thing is currently being looked at.

[Cadet04]

For the sake of asking,
Why can’t a cadet view all the data held on their SMS Record? After all, they are legally entitled to do so (DPA etc)

[Rumpole]

Thanks for your reply James.

Cadet04 has a good point.

[themajor]

@Cadet04 What do you want to be able to see? @james_elliott could then build this into Cadet Portal, if not already included.

There is a lot of data in SMS for each user, which is linked through multiple tables within the data, for ease not all of this will be displayed through to the Cadet Portal (this is the right option imo) to make all of it available would increase the size of the product and delay the rollout.

In 5 years as a CFAV (Adj / OC) no cadet as ever asked me about any of the data we have for them. The admin burden that would be created by facilitating all data being visible in Cadet Portal is massively outweighed by how much time it would take to log into SMS and show the cadet.

[Cadet04]

I’m not saying there’s a need to have all the data on there, but the fact that there’s only a small amount not going on makes me want to ask why that was decided not to be included.