If we give CIs the same allowance as uniformed staff, what incentive is there to be in uniform? Why wouldn’t I just go back to being a CI?
If you want me as an OC to sign off on an activity, even if my role isn’t directly delivering training I’m taking accountability for that activity (I’ve ticked that little box on SMS to say so, or words to that effect), so am I not a director?
You are never going to appease everyone, and changing the current system, for all its flaws, does run the risk of no one getting anything in the future.
I’m sure your old one has rotted now, new carbon fibre is much better, lighter, stronger. You should definitely go and buy one as an end of lockdown present. Maybe one with a motor
Exactly. As a staff cadet and now as a CI, I could be out of pocket running a weekend activity while a uniformed staff member gets paid to take part in the activity or to take a smaller role than I do. Makes no sense.
I started volunteering with another charity for my DofE and carried on doing it - their expenses system is absolutely painless. Paid within a few weeks maximum and the money you receive is actually what you spend (even includes lunch if longer than 6 hours, though not too sure I agree with that).
I’ll also add this isn’t about the CI vs uniform thing either. Take a typical YFA weekend. There may be 6 staff delivering the lessons. Some Sgt, some Flt Lt. All doing the exact same thing all weekend but getting vastly differing amounts.
Please tell me more, I genuinely want to understand
Your only true costs are in my opinion;
Time
Travel
You might argue lunch, but would you not have eaten if you were at home? There is no mechanism to cover Staff Cadet travel other than a Rail Warrant but I’d hope this is something your CivCom would support, or perhaps a member of staff could pick you up to solve the travel problem, but trying to avoid the Staff Cadet argument here.
As a CI my costs to do my prime cadet activity (Shooting) were suitable civvies for getting on to the range, mostly AT Kit that I already had from my time as a cadet, and my travel that was claimed via 1771 at 25ppm more than covering the fuel costs.
i am confused by this,
in what way is a CI “out of pocket” - if the expenses are ligitiment then submit a F1771 and claim for them - that is true for a CI as it is for uniform.
some uniform may choose not to as its easier to fill out a F80 than a F1771 with reciepts etc.
the VA is for the “time” - the only way a CI would be “out of pocket” is if they were due to be earning but sacrificed a days pay (ie self employed) to go out on a day walk with the Cadets or on the shooting range - but that is true for Uniform too. their VA is fixed against their rank not what their earn elsewhere.
as such confused in what way a CI is “out of pocket” by not being allowed to claim VA.
this is typical in my experience for expenses. I accept that this isn’t the case for VA - but VA isn’t reimbursing expenses.
I’d also question the point of a expense system which doesn’t reimburse the full amount - ie why make the point “he money you receive is actually what you spend”??
but to get the other 20ppm (to hit the 45ppm) there is a form to fill in. i know a few who have done it and when combined with a years worth of travel (including HTD) can be a couple of £hundred
I accept that it may not still = what is spent but that is a restriction on the type of expense.
I also accept limits on a meal allowance, but if in place these tend to be known so the individuals choice to going over that limit
I also hoped this but they did not support it at all. It was kept in mind when I was frequently asked to drop cadets off at places.
You are right - I wrote my post with the staff cadet mindset. Although, as pep points out, 25p per mile is below the ‘standard’. Bear in mind, that’s meant to cover wear and tear too.
The difference between 25p and 45p can only be claimed as tax relief which:
1 - Shouldn’t need to be done for a reasonable expense system anyway (especially for volunteers)
2 - Can’t be claimed if you don’t pay tax, e.g students…
As a side note, it’s also a right pain in the backside to try and work out how to claim expenses. There should be a simple 1 page guide instead of trawling through a 133 page document
But VA isn’t supposed to pay you for your time its supposed to cover for any additional expenses you may incur in the course of volunteering.
RAFAC HQ could agree a different scale rate but the basic is £25 a day out for over 10 hours and/or home after 8pm or staying out overnight and meals not in accomodation cost.
Once you take the deductions off £65, found that rough amount on an FOI response for CFAV daily rate, basic rate tax payer would get around £45 and a higher rate around £37.
at £65 day for your 28 days max you could get would be £1260 as basic rate tax payer, having a scale rate agreed with HMRC and allowing people to do more would remove any complaint about going over 28 days, remove admin for HMRC and also for RAFAC HQ as well as removing the burden on budgets as there would be no employers NI contribution to be paid.
Then it would save the volunteer any time or effort at all in dealing with HMRC also.
The real way to solve it is either have a true, simple, volunteer allowance in line its definition and make it simple or RAFAC need to treat us as employees, like reservists, and accept the same liabilities.
ok my error not understanding. but there are ways to claim the “full” amount
agreed - but the CFAV is equally out of pocket on that point too. VA is for time, not as a subsidy for mileage.
why not ask?
I did and was told by my WExO “put it all on a F1771 and I’ll sort it out” - I listed expenses and stapled the receipts.
I admit there is no guide, but why not ask - there is no silly question other than the one you don’t ask.
if so then i have learnt something today.
but if that is the case, if i turn up to instruct at a radio course, or a Shooting day all my “additional expenses” have been travelling to the event (covered by a F1771) and having a packed lunch - which is likely to either be similar in content or cost if i wasn’t at the event…so what am i getting VA for in those cases? just for a rainy day?
I’m 99.9% sure there is no way to claim the full extra 20p. I think it was @james_elliott that explained it to be. Basically you can claim the tax on the extra 20p back as part of your self assessment. If you already do a self assessment this is relatively simple. If like me all your pay goes through PAYG then it’s a bit trickier.
The RAFAC definition may not be, but as far as the tax man is concerned its really to cover the increased costs, by not being in your normal place so buying a fresh sandwich and drink at lunch or getting a substantial evening meal when staying away from your home or getting back late so your not put out by cooking and eating really late.
Scale rates allow no receipts, when I worked without an office and visiting different clients everyday if I had to leave home before 6 I could claim £7.50 for breakfast, £5 for lunch and £25 for dinner (£35 inside M25) with receipts and this was 10 years ago now.
VA until recently was known as “pay” - and everything formal related to it comes in the form of a salary - i get a “payslip” after submitting a F80, at the end of the year i get a P60.
i understand the concept of having a Meal allowance, and know others who have had a similar scheme but lost how this refers to the £60 someone might get as VA after submitting a F80…
Sorry, rubbish idea for those of us townies who use public transport - which is cheap but usually slow. A few of our sites are quite limited in parking spaces too.
I’ve used VA for the odd Uber when it’s a late finish or if I’ve had to bribe the better half to collect me from activities, but most of it has gone on greens or AT kit and the bits of blues uniform my parent station couldn’t manage to issue.
