RC SW mandated that on version 1 of the IBN (11) the latest (13) says that previous training is extant UNLESS you are the activity commander, which makes sense to me.
I’d be telling her to get back in her box, although as a Doctor she is well placed to review the mitigations in place.
Reading the report from the DASB, that instruction sounds madness as the report stated they couldn’t defend the policy in a Coroners court, and I’m sure learned colleagues here would be able to rip into anybody giving evidence in court on that basis. There is no scientific research for under 18s in such situations as any experiments maybe considered unethical as under 18s generally cannot give consent.
My biggest issue, is that if she as a DDH (and medical professional) has seen an issue with the ruling given out organisation wide, then that should be raised by her with the policy owner. And then an agreed update to the policy should be disseminated to everyone.
In LaSER we were told on 5th of July this:
All Staff and Staff Cadets are to complete this training at the earliest opportunity and NLT 1800 hrs Friday 04 Aug 23. Any SMS applications already authorised, or about to be sent for authorisation, will be allowed to take place with staff and cadets having completed the Cadet HIP Trg only. After 04 Aug 23 any activity not supported by Staff and Staff cadets with the new competency will not be authorised.
Yet on the 25th of July we were told this:
‘Unless specifically directed to complete HI Training Modules 1 and 2, for a role or event, previously completed CI training will remain extant for 2023.’ This transition time is welcome but staff must be alive to the need to switch to HIP Trg modules Jan 24. Any new climatic injury trg must be the new version.
So for us in LaSER we don’t really need to do anything until end of the year.
Yep. All exactly as discussed here and on the RIAT thread previously.
So why are they using adult standards as a basis for policy for children, this in an ever litigatious society will be a problem and the potential for a criminal record when it all goes wrong.
Why indeed…
There is currently no equivalent to use so they advise to use them as a guide only and highlight they aren’t as accurate as they could be.
I’ve heard discussions are happening to bring in under 18 ones but there is little to no medical evidence to support the data needed.
I thought it had to be done on Learn?
And that is the problem, no data and how do you formulate policy in an evidence free zone and there is a problem, who carries the can at the end of the day, the organiser or the person signing it off, the WC or the RC, or the DDH at Cranwell, because someone will be giving evidence in court if it all goes wrong.
The biggest issue is we don’t have a medical authority formally for the DDH to take the advice of.
Need to call in favours from the parent service or wider DMS.
Or reach out to Professor Sir Jonathon Van Tam, but that would mean talking to the ACF, he may have some contacts.
Heat illness/injury and cold injury/illness is not just an RAFAC problem, but it extends across all the Mod cadet funded and assisted organisations, ACF,CCF,SCC/RM cadets as well.
What is needed is a ‘purple’ response to these problems not one organisation doing something completely different to another. Heads need banging together to come up with a solution.
Don’t see the idea of a purple solution going down well in some quarters though, too many empires need to be broken down to do it, but I could be proved wrong, but it needs to be done as a matter of urgency before the brown matter hits the fan.
From the first paragraph above, it seems that the country as a whole might be lacking in this area.
The second suggests you and I are on the same page.
Look on the Safety Portal on Bader
It is also an MOD problem as they take trainees under 18. This is a bigger driver for the MoD as what we do is “optional” getting baby squaddies through Catterick is a part of basic training and is time critical. They cannot stop a course like we can stop a walk on a hot day.
How was the heat illness policy applied at Nijmegen this year? Were there permanent staff on site for ‘assurance’ purposes?
Yes, One of the TSAs came as well as a bod from HQAC, they review the rest points beforehand, and
Frequent WBGT readings from the rest points throughout the day where dependant on the reading cadets (and regs) were told to dress down appropriately
So the work/rest tables weren’t applied in the strictest sense - i.e. march for 30 minutes / rest for 30 minutes or whatever? The extent of the mitigations was adjusting clothing?
Mitigation included sending the cadets out in the first detachment to give more time in the cool mornings, having a field hospital on site, medics on rest areas, teams having to book in and walk past medics to give a once over to marchers, yellow cards and having to get checked out by medics before carrying on. Robust briefing on HIP.
Plus this year it didn’t get very hot. Max temp was 24. Something one afternoon. Can do two hours of activity then two hour rest. The two hours were enough to get the teams back when it got hot enough.
What i did was to stop at toilets between the rest areas. Apart from day one to the first toilets most legs were less that one hour.
Also no alcohol from monday morning until after the marches for all British marches inc squaddies.