Ok, so we put all this effort into ensuring that we only have suitable CFAV in position.
Because of their age and legal responsibility we train O18 cadets to the same mandatory standards as CFAV.
But we might not get a say in whether we want that O18 cadet like we get to turn away an applicant CFAV at the door, which we might not because we can’t trust them to take on the required responsibility.
We will have to see what happens but, if this is true, we surely either end up with a messy 2-tiers of O18 cadet or unsuitable adults holding responsibility.
Beyond that there’s little point hypothesising and whinging. Try to take away my control over who is on my unit and then I will go full whinebag.
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Does RAFAC have enough non-ranked “Staff Cadet” rank slides to deal with this…?
May then remove the very real stigma of Non-NCO Staff Cadets. Remember we used to cringe when seeing those naked rank slides when attending Wing Field Day.
But an O18 non NCO doesn’t make logical sense.
It’s responsibility without authority.
(Technically. Yes, you can play the “activity IC trumps rank” and “role over rank” game, but it undermines the system somewhat.)
The idea simply fails to reward effort and ability. Slack off for a few years so never get promoted, then get the power anyway just because of your age. You end up with a cadet who’s done nothing of note and hasn’t been in a tangible leadership role sitting above a 5-year served FS awaiting a CWO board in the responsibility hierarchy.
I’ve had one. They were a late joiner and a great cadet. Promoted to Cpl post 18. But I’ve never liked the switch from the old O18 system for the reasons above.
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Exactly, if you aren’t trusted to run clean up and the canteen as a Corporal at 17 and 51 weeks why the hell do we trust you to run outside activities as the adult in charge the next week?
Hence the logical recommendation of the LaSER review which wasn’t implemented. If you want to stay over 18 you have to be a Sergeant and then when you turn 18 you become a Flight Sergeant.
Cadet, Corporal and Sergeant restricted to under 18’s, Flight Sergeant and CWO restricted to over 18.
No need to spend a single penny on Cadet Rank Slides (except CWO which was always an exception), everyone wears a standard slide that you can get from stores.
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An organisation based on RAF ranks should have no such need for blank rank slides for anyone out of ab-initio training: that’s what AS2 and AS1 rank slides are for.
I was in full agreement with you, up until this point. U18 cadets should have ‘CADET’ on their rank slides, like the other cadet forces.
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Just not needed. They’ve got a brassard on that says Air Training Corps in great big white letters or they’ve got a ridiculous TRF with Air Cadets written on it in greens. Not to mention a different coloured Cap Badge that says Air Training Corps.
CCF are pretty much the same except for the beret badge. Not many airman out there wearing a bright red patch that says Poshington School in MTP.
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At the (National / Regional) Muster (Parade) there were CCF cadets with RAF cap badges, stable belts, and nothing on their blanking plates or rank slides to distinguish them from aviators (and a 16 to 18 year old cdt cpl could easily be mistaken for a regular JNCO in their early 20s).
On the other hand, there were other CCF (RAF) cadets wearing ACF-style ‘CADET’ rank slides: which made a lot more sense.
As a Service Instructor, I was grateful (for once) for my hair loss: as I wouldn’t be mistaken for a cadet flight sergeant.
The fact that some CCF cadets weren’t abiding by the dress regs isn’t a reason to change the dress regs.
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That would assume that:
A) Their OC has recommended them for a “Staff” role
B) They want a Staff role
C) The activity IC wants them in a staff role.
If any of those 3 conditions don’t get met, then the staff cadet reverts back to their traditional place in the heirachy.
There were some young JNCOs helping that day and the only way I could tell the difference was thanks to them wearing their MOD 90s on lanyards.
Distinguishing cadets from regular / reserve NCOs shouldn’t require any sewing. The Army and Sea / RN cadets both have this right.
I don’t think there is any need to buy 60,000 pairs of epaulettes for identification purposes when we already have a system in place that covers this quite adequately.
Not exactly, we send groups of Cadets out remotely supervised all of the time, if this Staff Cadet is in such a group they have the legal responsibilities of an adult irrespective of their rank.
Quite frankly I don’t think we should be keeping any Staff Cadets who don’t fit into this role, able to be used as a member of staff, the clue is in the title.
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They have the same legal responsibility as any other adult, that’s correct.
But, if any of those 3 conditions are not met, there will another adult in a supervisory role. The staff cadet will not be in a position to over rule an U18 cadet NCO. If there is an issue, then it gets escalated the same way as if there were no 18+ cadets in the group.
Taking DofE as an example that member of staff might not be readily accessible until after Cadet I M Becile who isn’t even trusted to run sweeping up at the Squadron has stepped in as the adult and made the sort of foolish decision that prevents them from even being a Corporal.
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I don’t disagree. But that is also a risk with a group of U18 cadets, where you might have a 16 year old FS, and a 17 year cadet - the “I’m the oldest, I know better mindset”.
At least the staff cadet should have completed the AVIP course, so in the areas where they may be expected by to act, they should have at least that knowledge.
But deep down if they are a prat that we haven’t even put on a JNCO course how much of that is gonna stick?
I suppose it depends on your view of what Staff Cadets are for, but as far as I’m concerned we shouldn’t be keeping people who don’t have the potential to be in charge of the uniform stores!
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Not every cadet joins at 12. Not every cadet is cut out to be an NCO. But every staff cadet will have some skill or qualification that adds value to the organisation - we have to justify every appointment on he pers form.
TBH, I really feel sorry for Staff cadets. The organisation doesn’t really know what it wants from them, and hasn’t really carved out a role for them - it’s just terrified of letting potential CFAV leave.
It would be far better, IMO, if we terminated cadet service at 18, and just created either a new rank, akin to the PI role for the ACF, or allowed 18+cadets to stream as APO or ASGT. Wear the white tabs, pass Cranwell before 20 or you’re out.
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And still give them some bonus benefit for those two years, like quals, or access to flying scholarships. Again, to help sweeten the deal.
You could phase that out and after a decade, becoming probationary staff at 18 will be normal.
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